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chumaxa

Lir racing power upgrade kit

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Hi guys !! So I just found out something today, they are actually a couple of v6 specialists in France, and they propose some kits. So I am not sure how good they are, but they are active on the french lotus forums, and they talk a lot about their prep vs komotec and so on, prices are very very good as well I think ... 

 

http://lir-racing.com/kits-evo/1191-kit-evo-x80-exige-v6.html

 

On the graphic, they precise that most of the v6 are around 320bh on the dyno, this is why the curves are not that close, and result being 420 and not 450 ...They use larini manifold and sport cat.

 

Edit:also, an other french specialist propose the shiftr111 mechanism on the v6, and they actually invented a system to partially get read of the overheating clutch problem, by adding some cooling directed from the under-tray, of course they would not describe it to me, but it looks like the french are pushing way more than the English on the topic, which surprises me, considering uk is the original country, and is way more open to mods than anyone else .. not a criticize, just a surprise.

Edited by chumaxa

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Can you ping the links to the french forum and posts?

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Here is the french garage who do the mod, but like I told you, you won't see much on the pictures ... for the shifter, they reckon it is going to fit, they have not done it yet. 

https://www.facebook.com/asphaltetours/

 

The post from the 24th of January.

 

Here is the forum post from LR racing, they do not criticize the komotec kit, just the way they sell them. Them-self they race a couple of lotus apparently, or with private team.  

 

http://www.garage111.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=17997

Edited by chumaxa

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Also they have a pack +40bhp (900 euros, you send your ecu and they send it back flashed), only based on a plate filter, and an ECU remap, apparently the standard map is so bad that they can extract almost 40bhp by just tweaking it .. Also they look careful about software/hardware balance.

 

http://lir-racing.com/kits-evo/548-kit-exige-v6-et-evora-stage-i-40cv.html

 

That look crazy good money, almost silly to not try it :/ I should almost try to get the car on a dyno and see what is the difference.

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3 hours ago, chumaxa said:

Also they have a pack +40bhp (900 euros, you send your ecu and they send it back flashed), only based on a plate filter, and an ECU remap, apparently the standard map is so bad that they can extract almost 40bhp by just tweaking it .. Also they look careful about software/hardware balance.

In which case, they are most likely ‘snake oil merchants’. (I’m afraid that I might struggle to translate that directly into French. Charlatans is another option). 

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I know what you mean, but they are very serious professional in that market, and like I said they run Lotus in competitions ( also lotus cup), I do not see what would be the point for them to lie, it would be quickly known if their kits were bad. And they are known and respected by other famous French Lotus specialists ... Now I also ask about the actual overheating problem and loss of power, he could lie and say yes it is better with their airbox, but no he told me that he has no data to rely such affirmation, so he would rather say the loss will be the same, but still the power gain will be same compare to a standard car with standard parts. 

Komotec has such much control on the current market that anything else seems to be considered as possible scam, seems unfair (which is partially proved by the fact they won't sell their kit to individual soon and you will have to drive your car to their partners .. ) 

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40bhp+ from a non-turbocharged car with only a remap? If it was that easy, all of the specialists would be doing it. 

That sort of increase needs an increase in airflow. And that requires hardware changes (not just a different filter). 

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9 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

40bhp+ from a non-turbocharged car with only a remap? If it was that easy, all of the specialists would be doing it. 

That sort of increase needs an increase in airflow. And that requires hardware changes (not just a different filter). 

What's the basis for this statement? Just curious.

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I told the guy the same on the phone of course , they change the filter for a KN one, and they do not claim 390, but more like 360/370, as all the v6 they used on a dyno, never got to 345 anyway .. They have had all the v6 on a dyno, and the 345 never get to 345, when the 360 cup actually has 360, but no big hardware change right ? Also the 40bhp are releavent at 6700/6800, where the peak is for their remap, on current car peak seems to be around 6000 and then drop.

Edited by chumaxa

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4 hours ago, vd9 said:

What's the basis for this statement? Just curious.

Ask an actual Lotus specialist. Ideally one who is experienced in tuning the Toyota V6. 

FWIW, my Evora S (the same engine) has got a custom ITG intake, new cams and a stainless exhaust (headers through to backbox, including a 200 cell cat). That was recently dynoed at 410fhp. It’s recently had a few more ECU tweaks so might be a little bit more now. So, that is an increase of approximately 65bhp from the factory figures. 

On that basis, do you really think that 40bhp would be possible with remap alone?

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48 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

do you really think that 40bhp would be possible with remap alone?

In short, I do think that 10-15% gain is achievable from AFR/ignition timing changes only. That naturally depends on the starting point with both of these. Without ever having seen the tables and logs for Exige, I still feel convinced that it does run very rich in stock form.

Given both of us are operating at not very scientific level for this particular engine, I think we won't get to the bottom of it here. It would be really interesting to get hold of ECU reading/flashing software and see what is there (some equivalent of EcuFlash would be brilliant).

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Yes right, "ask an actual lotus specialist", before being judgemental respect their CV. They do not claim to get to 390 but 360 (so around +30bhp on a low bhp car on dyno which is not far from the normal number we shall have ...lotus get 360 on the cup with no hardware change, this is what he claims. He did post Al the Dyno test they did on all lotus model, I could post here the result.

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Not sure I see the point for such a small gain. 

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20 minutes ago, chumaxa said:

lotus get 360 on the cup with no hardware change

Nope, I’m afraid. The 360 Cup did get hardware changes apparently:

“This new model boasts an increase in power of 10 PS with freer flowing induction and a sports exhaust system”

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-launch-limited-edition-exige-360-cup/

 

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If the standard cars are all apparently really putting out around 320 and there is the hangar 111 370 kit which apparently does end up with results around 370 for £699, why is there claim held in such disbelief?

Seeing the amount of soot on my exhaust all the time even after hard use, it seems to me that its running too rich all the time, so can totally believe it wouldn't be too hard to improve on what Lotus did.

Martin S

 

 

 

Edited by MARTIN_S

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The cars inject extra fuel while under high load to keep the pistons and (mainly) the cats cool. If you run leaner, you'll be melting cats and seeing them fly out of your exhaust on a regular basis. 

Remember Lotus is a big company with lots of engineers who calibrate the engines correctly. It's not an accident that they run rich. This even goes back to the Esprit when it went EFI, that ran rich for the same reason. 

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I am not the devil advocate here, just presenting what I found, and an other tuner using Komotec does not commentate against him about the average map of the V6, and the low values on dyno .. Hangar 111 sells Komotec stuff, which yes again claim a certain power, but apparently does not always deliver. And that kit at 700£ by the way, does not include a remap, so you get the carbon airbox but that's it, Lir racing does the same for 700 euros, just for info nothing else. 

That garage in question worked on a Cup R car which had a 430 komotec kit (so hangar111), and on the dyno they got 385bhp as a result ... after some work on the remap they got the car to 407bhp, which is still not the 430 presented...

 

Also the standard map is highly influenced by pollution result .. 

Edited by chumaxa

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I’ve got the original CupR induction and run without a map. Unsure id say I felt a massive power improvement but for sure I felt an improved throttle response.

You know that feeling when you switch from sport to race. Well it feels like that x2 (if that makes sense).

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59 minutes ago, chumaxa said:

That garage in question worked on a Cup R car which had a 430 komotec kit (so hangar111), and on the dyno they got 385bhp as a result ... after some work on the remap they got the car to 407bhp, which is still not the 430 presented...

We've never fitted a 430 kit to a Cup R.

It rather sounds like they may have an issue running the cars on the dyno.  Their dyno graphs are so heavily smoothed, they don't really show what is going on in detail.

Dave

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No I am saying that it is the komotec kit, just because I am unsure that everybody knows here your partnership, nothing else ! I think the graph are smoothed for selling purpose I guess .. But no the cup R had the kit fitted in Germany I think .. And please I am not criticizing anyone or any kit here, just passing infos .. 

 

Not Fited by hangar111, just same kit as the one sold there.

Edited by chumaxa

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1 hour ago, Bibs said:

Remember Lotus is a big company with lots of engineers who calibrate the engines correctly. It's not an accident that they run rich.

I think using the word "correctly" is a bit of a broad statement (correctly for what?). Perhaps being a sizeable company they calibrate the engines safely (and then what is safe and what is very safe?). Without knowing the numbers this is a conversation about semi-religious beliefs, which is not going to take us anywhere.

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I spent a lot of time mapping on a supercharged vx220 so understand how it all works, but my Exige S has a sooty exhaust all the time, going slow going fast

which cant be right.

This is what's shown on the Hangar 111 site and someone on here (may have been French Frie) got great results doing it, more than the 15 as the cars are running 320 ish to start not 345. and they ended up with nearer 370. I googled in case I was wrong about what a reflash is, and its listed as another word for remap. I was planning doing this so am particularly interested in this area. However I then noticed that the initial wording is not right and Hangar 111 needs to change it, as its only in the later wording it explains a reflash is available, whereas as the add suggest its part of the package!

Hangar 11 advert

http://www.hangar111.com/shop/komo-tec-lotus-tuning/644-komo-tec-exige-v6-cai-ex370.html

Cold air induction kit and re-map for Exige V6 - increases performance by approx 15bhp. ECU reflash and installation at Hangar 111 workshops.

£699.00 tax excl.*

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54 minutes ago, MARTIN_S said:

I spent a lot of time mapping on a supercharged vx220 so understand how it all works, but my Exige S has a sooty exhaust all the time, going slow going fast

which cant be right.

This is what's shown on the Hangar 111 site and someone on here (may have been French Frie) got great results doing it, more than the 15 as the cars are running 320 ish to start not 345. and they ended up with nearer 370. I googled in case I was wrong about what a reflash is, and its listed as another word for remap. I was planning doing this so am particularly interested in this area. However I then noticed that the initial wording is not right and Hangar 111 needs to change it, as its only in the later wording it explains a reflash is available, whereas as the add suggest its part of the package!

Hangar 11 advert

http://www.hangar111.com/shop/komo-tec-lotus-tuning/644-komo-tec-exige-v6-cai-ex370.html

Cold air induction kit and re-map for Exige V6 - increases performance by approx 15bhp. ECU reflash and installation at Hangar 111 workshops.

 

 

£699.00 tax excl.*

Ahhh I can see your point it’s stated as an option (reflash) but no price.

@Hangar 111 Dave can you confirm?

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21 minutes ago, alias23 said:

Ahhh I can see your point it’s stated as an option (reflash) but no price.

@Hangar 111 Dave can you confirm?

I can.

£699 is excluding the map, if you select the option in the drop-down it will update the price.

I have reversed the option in the webshop so the default price includes the remap.

Dave

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Not sure what dyno they use ... the KomoTec Dyno is an official VLN (a well known race series on the NOS) dyno and delivers pretty believable results ... my EX460 wouldnt be able to keep up with a GT3 or a 458 Speciale on the Autobahn if the power wouldnt be anywhere close ?

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