free hit
counters
Are later V6 engines prone to blowing up if over revved - Engine & Ancillaries/Gearbox - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Mark030358

Are later V6 engines prone to blowing up if over revved

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, 550superfast said:

Not sure, I asked you earlier what your concern is

@550superfast

There may be issues with the valve train disintigrating over 6800 rpm, allegedly that is. Been waiting a while for an answer on this, but doesn’t look like it will be readily forthcoming.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
1 hour ago, Mark030358 said:

There may be issues with the valve train disintigrating over 6800 rpm, allegedly that is.

Really?

Is the ‘valve train’ in the 380 engine any different to any other variations of the Lotus 2GR engines?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it’s been confirmed that there are some changes in engine parts between the original higher rev engine and the restricted 380 rev engine. This is what’s raising even further speculation.

I don’t see Lotus (or any manufacturer) are ever going to public admit such things...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, alias23 said:

I don’t see Lotus (or any manufacturer) are ever going to public admit such things...

@alias23 I dont think they need to, I just looked at DeRoure catalogue to see the changes. In fairness, the catalogue only gives a model number from when the changes were implemented, so maybe these changes will affect ALL cars, 350 to 430.But as I said in an earlier post, a company that is trying to save money surely wouldn't go to the expense of specifying different engine internals...

We wait with baited breath.

cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you start a thread about this - it would be a better resource in future and you may get better input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mark030358 I don't think you'll ever know for sure is my point there will always be speculation. I know i've go grief for suggesting in the past but the fact that the changes you highlighted tie directly to the decision to lower the rev count at the same time does make me wonder. But as I say im just some bloke speculating... For me personally it just maintains my view that the original V6 remains a bargain before Lotus went into penny pinch mode. 

Hopefully in time it helps to strengthen prices of the original model. I believe the Cup 360 is for sure possibly the best of the best they made...

@BatMobile .. unsure why you think you need the 'engine protection' kit from 2bular? What are you thinking... curious to understand whats worried you to feel you'd need something...

I have no facts or evidence...but I feel 400bhp feels like a safe number which maintains a level of reliability. I sense that when you get to bigger numbers of course stress will occur and I know of folks running high power which have needed gearbox work. PLEASE dont get me wrong (and to my earlier post) if I had the money I strongly believe the KT460 is a great solution, however I think there are other costs to consider which I 'sense' could be avoided with the SSC solution based on it being less powerful (therefore a compromise in favour of reliability). All IMO :)

3 minutes ago, 550superfast said:

Why don't you start a thread about this - it would be a better resource in future and you may get better input.

Fair point ... sorry for adding to any distraction ;)

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/03/2018 at 06:22, alias23 said:

I believe it’s been confirmed that there are some changes in engine parts between the original higher rev engine and the restricted 380 rev engine. This is what’s raising even further speculation.

Apparently, the only difference with the 380 engine is the supercharger nose. The internals (valves, cams, pistons etc etc) are the same for all of the Lotus 2GR V6 engines. 

Whatever ‘confirmation’ that you heard was just rumour, I’m afraid. 

Edited by Bravo73
Correction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 550superfast said:

Why don't you start a thread about this - it would be a better resource in future and you may get better input.

If someone wants to start the new thread, I’ll happily move all of the relevant posts across. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

 

Whatever ‘confirmation’ that you heard was just rumour, I’m afraid. 

@Bravo73 please check DeRoure and you can see changes to the valve train. At what. Point this happened, who knows.

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?TBL=11455&MAK=1&MDL=40&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

Maybe a red herring who knows.....

thanks

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Mark030358 said:

Maybe a red herring who knows.....

It is a red herring, I’m afraid. My source is solid. 

The internals for all of the Lotus V6 engines are the same. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

It is a red herring, I’m afraid. My source is absolutely solid. 

The internals for all of the Lotus V6 engines (except the 3-11 Race variant) are the same. 

Out of interest what internal changes are made to the 3-11 Race engine?

12 hours ago, Mark030358 said:

@Bravo73 please check DeRoure and you can see changes to the valve train. At what. Point this happened, who knows.

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?TBL=11455&MAK=1&MDL=40&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

Maybe a red herring who knows.....

thanks

Mark

What has changed? Part numbers?

If there has been a change it is probably made by Toyota, and I guess Lotus don't have any say in the engine components Toyota use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any mods to the race car engine will be done by lotus. They come with no warranty so Toyota won't get involved at all. Only on road going cars will Toyota have some say in matters as it will be them honouring any warranty claims in that dept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would cost Lotus money to change engine components so we can rule that one out! 

The 380's lower rev limit has been discussed here a number of times. The same 1320 supercharger is spinning faster at 6800rpm than it does in the 350, thanks to the smaller pulley, therefore at 7,200rpm it would be spinning. The chargecooled 430 engine uses a larger 1740cc supercharger so does not need to spin as fast to produce the boost. It makes 0.58 bar boost in the Evora 400 compared to the 1320cc Harrop supercharger's 0.5 bar. I can't find a figure for the 380's boost pressure but Lotus say this on their website "The power boost comes from a revised supercharger pulley, which increases charge pressure, an uprated fuel pump, a recalibrated ECU and the introduction of a revised exhaust system", so we can expect more than 0.5bar. SSC will tell you how the 1320 supercharger is already near maxxed out with the 350 motor. How Komotec get it to work with their 430 kit is anyone's guess.

Funny how the 380 has become the whipping boy on car forums yet the reviews in the car mags were exceptionally positive. I do agree that it seems like a pointless step now we know that Lotus could have released a chargecooled Exige sooner. Why they didn't remains a mystery we may never know the answer to. But anyone feeling down about theirs should go and read the reviews again. Evo's Richard Meaden certainly enjoyed his time with the 380. He concluded it was 'one of the very best drivers cars available at any price'!

Out of interest, does the 350 motor still rev to 7,200rpm or has that been backed off to 7,000rpm now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 550superfast said:

Out of interest what internal changes are made to the 3-11 Race engine?

I've done some more digging and it turns out that internal changes weren't made to the 3-Eleven Race engines after all. I'll edit my posts above to correct them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

I've done some more digging and it turns out that internal changes weren't made to the 3-Eleven Race engines after all. I'll edit my posts above to correct them.

Ok, thanks. I thought only changes, if any,  would have been induction and manifolds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They were, in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure that all 2GRFE engines used in the Evora S or Exige V6 and later on are exactly the same.  More so, the only changes introduced are Lotus specific injectors on the supercharged engines (vs NA Evora) and a different oil cooling setup (with thermostat valve).

Like Jonny stated, the lower rev limit on the 380 is due to the supercharger running faster due to the smaller pulley and I guess Harrop didn't like the rpms that unit would be making at 7200 rpm with this smaller pulley.  Albeit the aftermarket tuners don't seem to care (the KT EX430 and KT460 kit run a bigger crankshaft pulley, so the supercharger is spinning faster too) and I've yet to hear a TVS1320 fail due to overspinning.

 

 

Edited by Kristof Thys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets not forget that Toyota may have made some changes to the internals over the last 10 years for reasons we may never know. This woul explain why DeRoure shows different part numbers from a certain date onwards. 

Lotus definitively does not touch the engine internals and would likely breach their contracts with Toyota if they did (I'm sure Toyota would not be too pleased if every second 2GR-FE in a Lotus blew up on them - its bad for their image too).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×