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PhilW

Selling up is possible!!!!!!

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Some of you will have seen posts from last year when I was RAC'd home due to what was thought to be a major gearbox failure.  Well I still have a problem and I really need some help please.

Chain of events:

  • Car started making a very bad noise and I was struggling to select 2nd gear. This happened about 1 mile from my destination so i continued.
  • Leaving for home noise became worse and gear selection became worse
  • Rang the RAC for lift home
  • Removed gearbox and tested and measured and checked everything.  Number of peoples opinions and decided the gearbox was actually OK.  
  • Reinstalled gearbox
  • Started car and found I still had the same problem
  • Removed gearbox and sent for rebuild
  • Whilst it was away I put in a different known to be OK gearbox.  Used same clutch and same thrust bearing.  Only change is the gearbox.  Car ran perfectly
  • Took car off the road for winter to carry out some other work including removing good gearbox and installed newly rebuilt gear box.
  • Just started car and noise is still there.  Quite a loud knocking noise. Pretty much the noise that was there previously

Now at my whits end.

Is there anyone in the Norfolk/Suffolk area that would be willing to come and take a look to see if they can see anything.  I am in all weekend but only Tuesday and Wednesday evening  next week.

I am located between Thetford and Bury St Edmunds just off the A143 near Stanton.

My number is 07545431226

 

Please help.  many thanks

  • Confused 1

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Hi Phill, can you give us a more detailed description of the symptoms, for example, is this a noise which occurs constantly when the engine is running and neutral engaged, or when in gear or in a paticular gear, just whilst driving or at standstill too.

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Steve. Will do. Lost it tonight so tomorrow when I can get some assistance from my son will investigate further. Will post everything on here tomorrow . Thank you for responding. 

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Sorry to hear that your still having issues with the gearbox.  

Best to be methodical and tell us in as much detail as you can what the symptons are. Some things to consider would be, differences between good and bad gearbox i.e. identical boxes? if spare box is from your other car, could you consider fitting the 'bad' box to that to see what happens?

Is the noise always present, only when clutch pressed, only released, only in gear or only in neutral. Does it vary pitch or loudness with revs? Does it sound like the noise is in gearbox area or possibly engine?

Describe the noise, metallic? knocking, scraping or grinding?

I know you've posted about this before, but we best start from scratch.

:) 

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Hi Phil .Hope you get it sorted. I am sure you will .Mike

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The TLF Esprit Counselling and Support group is mobilising, Phil. I’m sure the problem will be resolved, so hang in there, mate!

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5 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

The TLF Esprit Counselling and Support group is mobilising, Phil. I’m sure the problem will be resolved, so hang in there, mate!

Yeah hang on .....

how much you selling it for?? 😂

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/\ /\ Not entirely what I had in mind.

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Thanks everyone. Will post a video later so you can hear the noise. Have been onto Gerald Turner this morning who is close by. He comes by regularly and should be passing next week so is going to call in. He can then evaluate and if necessary I will book it in with him hopefully. 

One issue is the gearbox rebuild. If it proves to be unsatisfactory then there will be a conversation with the company. A company that will be remaining nameless for the time being. 

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Hold the faith chap - you’ll fix it 👍

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Thanks Barry. Just walked away for a while to take stock. I'm sure it will be resolved. Not even the money. It's the time and effort so far that seems to have been fruitless. 

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Story of my life chap. You gotta love esprit gearboxes 👍

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Hi all

I have spent only 20 minutes this afternoon on the car. Expecting to spend more time tomorrow.  I have put 4 videos on dropbox which everyone should be able to get access to with the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tmi5jq84hucx4ca/AAC7lw8E8qyLbBIdw1pqIdfDa?dl=0

Seems from my tests this afternoon it maybe linkage/adjustment related.  Have a look at the videos and let me know what you think.

 

Video file JILL6600

Car was initially started following installation of rebuilt gearbox.  Loud noise but disappears when clutch is fully depressed.  Noise returns when clutch is released

Video file CDEF1670

Starting car from cold following day.  Car in neutral.  Car stalled

Video file CFMZ1112

Running engine following stall in second video.  Car still in neutral.  Noise slowly diminishes/changes.  Noise seems to be coming from bellhousing area.

Video file TLHB2624

Noise exists but not quite as prominent.  Car remains in neutral throughout.  Clutch is being pressed and released.  Noise seems to return when the clutch pedal is travelling through its range of movement.

 

Not on video:

Selected 1st gear easily and was able to move forward.  Unable to select reverse.  Stopped engine and made adjustment to the linkage.  Now able to select reverse easily but now unable to select first.  I know this is a fine adjustment so will try and make finer adjustments tomorrow so I can select all gears.  Noise now seems to have stopped following adjustments. 

I will send you my findings tomorrow also.

Would appreciate all feedback on this.  Does seem though the adjustments made to linkage do seem promising.

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I'll see how the morning goes, I may be able to pop along.

I'm thinking it could be selectors/ linkage mechanism having too much slack and so attempting to engage more than one gear at a time (only slightly), so getting a mild sort of gear crunch. But could be way off. What would really be interesting is to hear where the noise is coming from (using long bars etc) rather than the noise itself.

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Any assistance would be greatly appreciated Andy. My number is on the first post. I'll make sure I have phone with me all the time. Phil

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Hi, not possible to select two gears at the same time. If the interlocking plungers were put back after the rebuild. Btw, that gearbox looks not very proper imho.

 

 

Have you checked the axial play of crankshaft?

 

cheers,

 

Harry Martens

www.ds-vitesse.com

 

 

 

Edited by dsvitesse1
wrong size photo

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These gearboxes have some selectors that are not indexed to the selector shafts, iirc. If they aren't in the right places, things could grind together...I have a feeling that reverse gear may be the culprit and the teeth are grinding together. Taking the top off the box is quick and easy and you could then inspect what is going on....good luck....

I've had another listen to the video; don't think it's gears grinding together. I would suggest you try to isolate where the noise is coming from...a mechanic's stethoscope is useful, but you can also use a large screwdriver...put you thumb over the end of the handle and then into your ear!! Push the blade against the gearbox and you will hear the innards...move about until the noise is loudest...can give a useful clue.

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Do you only get this noise when in neutral? Can you raise the rear wheels, put it in gear and let the clutch out? 

It sounds like something rattling in the gearbox. Maybe disconnect the cables and see if that removes the noise (cables may be causing the gears to be almost engaged).

:) 

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Hi Phil,

I suggest you give thought to Harry M's advice regarding axial play at the crank. I purchased a dry sump motor out of a wrecked '82 from the local breaker chap who specializes in this sort of car. The lying bastard told me that he'd run up the motor and it sounded fine but as the thrust washers had twisted into pretzels and gouged a trough in the crank flange it would likely have registered a nasty noise, and certainly had the clutch pedal been pressed at all. Lotus did issue a Service Bulletin 'way back then on modifying the rear main bearing/MBP in order to improve oiling of the thrust bearings. If you have a failing thrust situation I suggest it could manifest in noise and shifting difficulties rather like those you are experiencing. Not happy news if I am correct.

Steve 

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Not sure about the axial play as the other gearbox he had fitted didn't cause a noise.

:) 

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The only sound that I know of that changes with engaging the clutch is the thrust bearing. I might be way off though.

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Hi Phill, just looked at the videos, first thing I noticed was the visual condition of your rebuilt box, I have to say, was it done professionally?  If not, was the input shaft retaining circlip Replaced/renewed?, if not the input shaft maywell be trying to escape into the sump via the crankshaft.

Did you remove the clutch to investigate that Area? It maybe worth taking a look after other avenues have been explored.

You might also try touching the end of the clutch release fork to check for heavy vibrations, I don't think the release bearing would create that much noise, but something as simple as a loose flywheel bolt or similar interfering with a stationary clutch components might. Disengaging the clutch would pull those components away from the flywheel, just a thought.

That just leaves the gearbox, as @TAR mentioned, release the cables /rods from the translator and find true neutral to ensure adjustment isn't trying to partly engage a gear.

I don't think starting the car again is a good idea, if it is the box, it could let go at anytime under engine load. You could manually check the gearbox function in situ by wedging the clutch pedal to the floor (thus disengaging the gearbox from the engine), Jack up the rear wheels, put it in gear then with help turn both wheels simultaneously to work the gearbox, whilst listening for the clunk or feeling for resistance at some point. Without the engine drowning out the sound it should be easy to isolate the problem. 

Hope you find a simple solution. 

 

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I was thinking about what I posted and I now doubt it is the thrust bearing. A thrust bearing on its way out generally make a continuous sound and not a repetitive knocking like that. I agree with Steve above that it has to be something else that is coincidentally loaded up when the clutch is engaged.

Hope you can find it.

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I’m also wondering about crank end float possibly being an issue. I see that’s been said by a few others, and I tend to agree that’s something to be checked out and eliminated, especially as we’ve seen a few examples recently.

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