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Selling up is possible!!!!!! - Page 2 - Gearchange/Gearbox/Clutch - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
PhilW

Selling up is possible!!!!!!

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Hi all of you and thank you very much for all your responses.  I shall try and answer each comment from each person.

Harry:  I know what you are saying about the look of the gearbox, however it was rebuilt professionally.  It was rebuilt by a company that I know at least 1 UK Lotus specialist with a very good reputation uses.  They dont polish and paint to keep costs down.  This is made clear by them at the beginning.  My  decision to use this company  was after much thought and advice being taken from many places.  Based on this I am confident the internals have been done correctly. However occasionally mistakes are made and things go wrong so at the moment I am not discounting the rebuild as the problem.  Picture of your gearbox looks lovely and and if I lived near you then I would have asked you for sure.  I will be in Amsterdam on 20th April so if you could bring me one of your gearboxes I could it install it in my car.  What fantastic advertising for you in the UK! :)  ......Only joking.

Axial play (End float) of the crank is fine.  I measured this before with a DTI.  Whilst I cant actually remember the figures the float was well within spec of the manual.  As TAR says the engine ran no issue with a different gearbox.

John Douglas:  I shall be using your stethoscope method this morning for sure.  However when I finished last night I had made adjustments and the noise was gone.  I do have  a glimmer of hope that the gear linkages were poorly adjusted and this somehow was causing the issue.  I am no expert at all on gearbox internals.  Something I should learn!

TAR:  This morning I will be trying jacking and running if the noise comes back and persists.  My adjustments yesterday seem to suggests something part engaged which hopefully is why I seemed to have stopped the noise.

Ramjet:  Whilst the thrust bearing is not new I don't believe the problem is that.  Same thrust bearing has been used throughout this saga. Done for a reason.  Car is fine with a different gearbox but same thrust bearing.  Also there was absolutely nothing wrong with it that myself and a number of others could see.  I also do not believe that the noise you can hear in the videos could be the thrust bearing.  The noise is just wrong for such a small little bearing failing.

Steve V8:  I can only hope the gearbox internals and the input shaft circlip is correct.  The last bullet point on my first near suicidal post states the noise is similar to before.  I believe the likely hood of the same problem giving the same noise, if it is gearbox internals is very remote. If a cock up has been made in the gearbox then I would expect maybe a different noise and different symptoms.....hopefully.  Clutch has been removed and inspected previously.  Clutch is actually very little wear.  This was removed and checked prior to installing the spare gearbox and car ran fine.  It was not re checked before installing this gearbox but I had no reason to.  Based on this I think I have to assume the clutch is fine.  I can also confirm the spigot bearing (inside end of crank) is also fine.  Will be jacking car today during further testing as you suggest.

Chillidoggy:  Axial play (End float) of the crank is fine.  I measured this before with a DTI.  Whilst I cant actually remember the figures the float was well within spec of the manual.  As TAR says the engine ran no issue with a different gearbox.

 

I shall let you know how my morning goes!  My wife has removed all rope and is now out of my reach. Please feel free to submit more ideas if you get them

Many thanks 

Phil

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

The sound, imho, is akoustic, so I am thinking about flywheel touching bellhousing some how.. Should be able to see and/or hear even with just turning engine by pushing in gear.

 

cheers,

 

 


with kind regarDS,

Harry Martens

www.ds-vitesse.com

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Harry

You didn't think much of my free advertising campaign for you then? :)

 

Car has run this morning in stationary position.  I am now going through full linkage adjustment procedure.  What I do have is a 442mm extension rod which should be on post '83 cars.  Apparently the cross gate cable for use with these rods is shorter than the earlier cables as I understand.  No way of knowing which cable is fitted.  I shall continue and let you know how I progress.

Thanks all

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In the 4th video the timing pointer does not seem to be pointing at the right place on the flywheel. It seems to be pointing at thin air rather than the flywheel just rear of the ring gear.

Unless its something to do with the angle of the shot. 

Is the bellhousing completely seated onto the block? 

 

 

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Andy

I think angle of the shot.  Gearbox is completely and correctly seated on the block. 

Thank you for the help.

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So far this morning I have not heard the noise at all.  I am however unable so far to adjust the  linkage correctly.  I either can select 1st and 2nd and not reverse or reverse and not 1st and 2nd.  Adjustments being made are very minor. I.E half a turn of the 442mm extension bar.

On the photograph with the arrows no matter what adjustments I make It is nearly impossible to get the red arrow to push across to the right to allow reverse to be selected.  If I push a little more manually then reverse is no problem.

I have looked at the bushings on the linkages and whilst I know these are quite critical they don't seem bad at all.  I haven't yet looked under the gears stick at the mechanism but continuity of movement through the linkage does seem to be fairly positive.  For me a cable is a cable but as the cross gate cable is pushing which is a pretty rubbish idea in my view do they loose effectiveness?  Do they weaken so its pushing ability is diminished significantly to cause problems and to warrant a new one?

Capturea.JPG

Captureb.JPG

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If the outer jacket of the cable has come loose from the threaded bush at either end it would cause lack of travel.

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Andy and Andy

now going to start looking at gear stick end.  condition of everything at the back end looks ok to me

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Ian. Yes.  As far as I can tell I can select all gears manually directly from the levels on the gearbox.  Obviously with both selecting rods disconnected. 

I think I am going to stop now because I am just going through the same thing.  I will speak to the gearbox people tomorrow as whilst it has sat in the garage for a bit I believe they should be honouring any problem. I want to take the top off and have a look but don't want to break their seal without their knowledge. 

Gear stick mechanism looks reasonable to me also. My little helper unfortunately has more interest in playing on an Xbox so that's just making life that much more difficult now. 

Hoping that Gerald Turner will call in mid week also so that will be great. 

Thank you all for your help so far on this. Hopefully will be at Silverstone classic so if any of you are going it will be great to meet you. 

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Video 4 seems useful. The noise happens once per rev with clutch not pressed then when slightly pressed turns to a rattle, then fully pressed goes away.

This seems to point to something in the release bearing area, maybe rattling fork, carrier, pivot, the bearing itself or (less likely) the clutch itself. Such that with slight pressure but rotation, the rattle appears but with heavier pressure it is prevented. Are the two clips which hold the bearing to the fork intact?

Or maybe fork contacting the clutch cover for some reason.

There are 2 different types of clutch plate and release bearing listed in the parts book, flat bearing with rounded fingers on the plate, or rounded bearing with flat fingers, any chance of a mixup?

You mentioned swapping gearboxes, were the entire assemblies swapped ie with bellhousing and clutch fork?

 

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I think you've pretty much nearly nailed this one @PhilW, you can breath easy now. do you have the box with the little adjustment screw and locknut on the endplate, if you do its for selector shaft range adjustment, it may just need resetting, if you haven't I'd imagine the final adjustments would be made inside the inspection cover, have a word with your gearbox man tomorrow he'll know.

Best Steve 

 

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As I understand it though the noise happens when the clutch is depressed and gearbox stationary?

Or is there enough clutch drag that the input shaft is still rotating? Easily confirmed by checking for noise with clutch depressed but in gear instead of neutral then nothing will be moving in the box.

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Thanks Steve. Didn't know about this adjuster screw. Will look into this. 

Andy. Noise was in existence the moment the engine started. Noise went when clutch pedal was depressed. Yesterday however I have not heard the noise at all. Seems linkage adjustment has stopped it. Not out of the woods yet. Will make some further enquiring today. 

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Well I have spoken to a number of people and spent 2 evenings trying to adjust but with no luck. My final attempt will be to swap the top plates of the gearbox including the gear selector mechanism with the two levers. The spare gearbox that worked perfectly moves with a measurable amount of less force than the gear box in the car. During my phone calls I have been told of differences in springs. So I am going to inspect both mechanisms and assuming nothing obviously diffenerent swap the top plates and have another go.  Failing that we are off to GST! 

No chance to do this unfortunately now until Easter Monday. 

Steve V8. The adjuster screw you mentioned does not seem to exist on these boxes. Can you give more detail or maybe you are thinking of a different gearbox?

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Thanks Stuart. Think I'll be in a VW on the 9th at this rate!

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On 26/03/2018 at 05:46, PhilW said:

Andy. Noise was in existence the moment the engine started. Noise went when clutch pedal was depressed. Yesterday however I have not heard the noise at all. Seems linkage adjustment has stopped it. Not out of the woods yet. Will make some further enquiring today. 

Sorry yes, I only looked at video 4 and got your "clutch in", "clutch out" sequence out of whack thus was talking nonsense.

I think the adjuster Steve mentioned is the 3rd-4th selector shaft endstop but that only has any effect when in 4th.

 

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Phill, the selector shaft adjustment is not anything I've personally had experience with, but I have read about it (even seen the pictures of with and without ), apparently present on early Citroën transaxles used on the Esprit, at what point in development they were deleted I don't know.

Just a thought that had it been present, it could have been a cause of the problem. The function of the locking adjustable screw was for correct alignment of first/second gears to third/fourth, which seems to be the problem your gearbox exhibits, so in Steves world if this adjustment no longer exists on the outside then a similar adjustment must exist elsewhere. I'm sure you'll get it sorted soon.

 

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Thanks Steve. Really appreciate everyone's comments, thoughts and knowledge.  Easter Monday top plates will be swapped. Will look for any sort of adjuster internally. Just seems strange the other gearbox just worked. 

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What doesn't make sense is the appearance of the sound as you depress and release the clutch in the fourth video.

I wonder if you have an issue with one of the spring fingers in the clutch itself?


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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My money's on interplay between release bearing and clutch fork.


British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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4 hours ago, Sparky said:

My money's on interplay between release bearing and clutch fork.

Concur, as posted a few days ago, regarding whether the springs holding the bearing to fork are intact.

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