Porsche has done it

[Ali tuck 143]

Next gen lotus cars,emissions etc are we gonna see downsizing.....2.0 litre turbos from the v6’s????

Edited May 11, 2018 by Ali tuck

[MrP_ 289]

It's pretty much inevitable I think. The days of larger engines are going away from us, rightly or wrongly. 

Add in the tie in with Geely and the parts bin of large displacement engines get smaller. 

We are now seeing the very last of the analogue sports cars, times move on. Over the last few years my love of rear wheel drive big power  cars is seen as increasingly unique. 

 

[NedaSay 835]

Bear in mind that until recently Lotus had a 1.6l Elise on offer, and The current top spec Elise is propped by a supercharged 1.8l. JMG has been hinting strongly at using Volvo powertrains for future models, so yes Turbocharged 2.0l - 4 cylinder, possibly with mild hybrid feature (48v battery) could happen. The SUV is pretty much guaranteed to get that type of engine, an Elige replacement would I assume also get it. Bigger models could retain their V6s a little while longer. 

For Lotus it would not be so much downsizing as a temporary return to the basics prior to a switch to full on EV tech.

Dare I say Lotus has done it first? I think I will, prior to the Esprit V8, the Lotus range was propped by 4 cylinders whose displacement did not exceed 2.2L, actually the biggest displacement of any Lotus to date is the 3.5L V6 GR-FE  I think.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by NedaSay

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,227]

Lotus Carlton 3.6 litre I6 twin turbo “C36GET”?

[au-yt 482]

Interesting comment made by My local dealer he believes the V6 cars will be collectable, as they will be last Toyota powered cars.

The Geely group his own brand, 10% Mercedes, Volvo and Lotus has some interesting power plants, New top of the range with Merc V8 TT is a possibility, Merc superchaged and Volvo’s 4 cylinder engines.

http://m.wardsauto.com/10-best-engines/2016-winner-volvo-xc90-t6-20l-turbosuper-4

[NedaSay 835]

6 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Lotus Carlton 3.6 litre I6 twin turbo “C36GET”?

Ah yes yes! I always forget that they increased the displacement of that Opel/GM engine from 2969cc to 3615cc while the 2GR is only 3456cc. Carlton wins! 

[Geoffers 55]

If you include race cars the 30 & the 40 both used the 4727cc Ford V8.

[NedaSay 835]

 

1 hour ago, Geoffers said:

If you include race cars the 30 & the 40 both used the 4727cc Ford V8.

We shall not include them! We shall focus on road cars. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by NedaSay

[Vanya 563]

On 12/05/2018 at 00:42, MrP_ said:

It's pretty much inevitable I think. The days of larger engines are going away from us, rightly or wrongly. 

Has anyone told Jaguar? Last I checked their V8's have been going 4.0 - 4.2 - 5.0.....

[MrP_ 289]

1 hour ago, Vanya said:

Has anyone told Jaguar? Last I checked their V8's have been going 4.0 - 4.2 - 5.0.....

Their AJ-v8 has been increasing in capacity as it’s the cheapest bang for the buck. They haven’t invested in a new design for a 5.0. Jaguar are a great example of a brand that in the 80’s needed a big v8, now the majority of their sales are low capacity 4 pots.

 

[Escape 776]

And they did come from a 5.3 and 6.0 V12.

[Ali tuck 143]

I suppose if we do see the demise of the v6 the up side will be possibly lighter engines and more performance 

 

[NedaSay 835]

That is not necessarily true, high performance smaller engines are lighter but not necessarily more powerful than the V6 they replace. In order to get that performance they require extremely edgy tunes and with these tunes come more emissions and more fuel consumption  as a result the engine in the A45 AMG or V60 polestar,  RS3, or 718 are not better or just marginally better than the V6 they are replace. If anything the V6s have more  baseline oomph and can generate that oomph while generating interesting fuel savings and low emissions (relatively speaking)

https://autotechnician.co.uk/the-end-of-engine-downsizing/

In order to achieve higher performance while keeping emissions low and acceptable fuel economy small engines are set to team up with EV Hybridization which means adding weight and complexity. I have to recognize that the EV modules are getting more compact and lighter by the day.

 

Personally I think it is about finding the right  size for the performance target you have in mind, McLaren just went from 3.8l on their 650S to 4.0l on the newer 720S.

Porsche 718S had to go up from 2.0l to 2.5l to generate 350bhp and the fuel economy advertised for that car is put in doubt  by prettty much every journo.

Now these engines are not about fuel economy and low emissions they are supposed to be sporty and emotional. Consider me old school but until we get fun affordable EV sport cars  very little can beat a V6 in terms of sheer fun and emotion behind the wheel.

[Vanya 563]

Oddly enough some auto manufacturers pull of amazing feats with downsizing. Let's take my old 2012 Peugeot RCZ - a small four pot 1.6 liter with a blower, gave me a combined consumption of roughly 0.7 l/10 km, with a straight (max) torque curve from 1400 rpm all the way through the rev range*, and 200 hp in total. Great performance, especially for day to day but importantly even when having fun. 

The GT86 that replaced it has a naturally aspirated 2.0 l boxer four that is allegedly pushing 200 hp and 151 lbft of torque, but feels more like an old mid 2000's Ford Fiesta with 80 hp. And the bastard consumes 0,85 l/10 km. It's atrocious. 

Edit: *Peugeot later came with an even more highly strung RCZ R with the same engine pushing 270 hp, with even better fuel consumption (this was confirmed by long term tests etc). Can't recall what the emissions were like but none of the above were much to write home about in terms of green credentials. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Vanya

[nerobi 219]

Downsized turbo engines aren't meant to consume less fuel but produce lower emissions. (as i know)

Edited May 13, 2018 by nerobi

[C8RKH 6,229]

Let's have 3.6, 4.0, 4.2, 4.8, 5.0 and 6ltr pretrol engines please. Should be mandatory for all sports cars. Should need super-unleaded fuel.  That fuel should be free (subsidised by a levy on electricity bills for charging EVs).  Said plebs can all have an EV to run around in and we get rid of the nasty particle emitting shitemobiles that are diesels.

That way we have happy plebs in pleb mobiles. Where as me, and my mates, get to roar around in big engined cars using up all the nasty hydrocarbons so our kids, kids, kids don't have to deal with them in the future.  If we make the switch now, and we all get six Loti (one with each engine) then by reckoning we will have  eradicated all super unleaded fuel by around 2289!  

Right, we best get crackin'.  Get those V6 lovelies out and drive.

Smaller engines are fine too - I did 800 miles in my little 2.2 supercharged VX this weekend - around 6 hours of that was driving flat out at Blyton Park and what a bloody hoot that was. How can something so fun (burning hydrocarbons) be so wrong!  I mean, it's not like i was navigating lines of Charlie or anything nasty.....

[TBD 781]

There was a time when sports cars with small engines were alle the rage. Even the 911 entered the market with a 2-Ltr. flat 6 back in the 60's and Lotus had their greatest lineup with 4-cylinder engines.

Its not bad seeing a return in this direction. Downsizing does not have to mean slower or less powerfull. Today's 4-cylinder engines are putting out 400 hp per litre, double what even the Aventador gets out of its 7-liter V12.

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,227]

5 minutes ago, TBD said:

Today's 4-cylinder engines are putting out 400 hp per litre, double what even the Aventador gets out of its 7-liter V12.

Really???

[DarrylV8 226]

Don’t think 400horses per litre is correct!

[KAS-118 229]

Saw this article a little while ago - it suggests the opposite https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/engine-downsizing-come-end-says-volkswagen-boss

Edited May 14, 2018 by KAS-118

[Kimbers 1,766]

The whole market is heading south in terms of engine size. Whilst that sounds awful to those of us who love big powerful engines, it isn't actually as awful as it sounds.

For example, the new KIA Stonic has a 1.4 Petrol Engine (old School) which puts out 98HP. They then have a 1.6 Diesel that puts out 108HP. However the telling thing is their new engine, which is a 1.0, (yes a one litre) which puts out 118HP! And they say they can get another 50hp out of it, but the current level keeps emissions low and maximises Fuel economy.

Put that into scale and that means you could have a 1.5 petrol engine putting out 250HP. And thats just with current technology. If you added a hybrid system you would hadd another 50HP in electric so technically speaking you could have a 300HP Exige with a 1.5 engine and still get similar performance, especially as the low down grunt of the V6 is replaced by the low down grunt of an electric system!

Whilst they may not sound like we are used to, I know for a fact, having had an Exige S2, that with a nice exhaust even a 4 pot sounds awesome!

[TBD 781]

21 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

Don’t think 400horses per litre is correct!

My bad! 200Hp per litre, giving those 2-litre engines around 400 hp in total.

But still double the litre-output of a Lambo Aventador.

[Alfa2Evora 705]

On ‎13‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 20:03, C8RKH said:

Let's have 3.6, 4.0, 4.2, 4.8, 5.0 and 6ltr pretrol engines please. Should be mandatory for all sports cars. Should need super-unleaded fuel.  That fuel should be free (subsidised by a levy on electricity bills for charging EVs).  

Andy C for PM, or at the very least Minister for Transport - gets my vote!

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Put that into scale and that means you could have a 1.5 petrol engine putting out 250HP. And thats just with current technology.

Our 1.4 Alfa Giulietta (with almost 8 year-old F1-derived MultiAir cylinder head technology) left the factory with 170bhp but following some tweaking of the electrickery now pushes just north of 210 so not a million miles away already.

[NedaSay 835]

When JMG talked about the Volvo powertrain a while back he alluded to the 3 cyl 1.5l Turbo which pushes 180 bhp in its current guise in the new Volvo XC40.  Should Lotus get this powerplant they will surely be able to get more out of it which would make for a very fitting entry level Elise model, in my opinion.

The 4 cyl 2.0l turbo and supercharged engine used on the V60 Polestar cranks out 360 bhp so it would do well as a replacement for the engine on the Exige Sport 350, but it will not come with reduced fuel consumption and only marginally better emission according to a Motortrend test: http://www.motortrend.ca/en/news/2017-volvo-v60-polestar-first-test-review/

Of course being lighter Lotus would probably improve on fuel efficiency and lowering emissions but it is not quite the magic bullet, Should they add a 48V system mild hybrid component then we could see even more improvement  in power, fuel economy and particule emissions. 

[Kimbers 1,766]

With the new Emission Testing laws coming out short;y many manufacturers are having to make some serious changes. I know Kia and peugeot are both stopping production for several months to swap production over and change tooling. Kia are going with a mild hybrid on their Diesel engines and AdBlue as well, but Peugeot have an even bigger problem as their engines already used Adblue so don't have that option! It is my understanding that several engines will be offline all together for some time!

VW have one of the biggest issues as their cars are already going up after their testing was changed due to them fitting the cheat device. One comment fromm an insider recently was "We may be 100g/km out of bed by the time this all washes out!". that is the difference between £145 tax and £1500 tax, not to mention a massive Company car tax bill if you happen to drive one!