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410 questions


bosshog

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4 hours ago, Simon Bateman said:

I wonder how much effect the fuel tank positioning has on making the Evora appear more rearward in weight distribution.

Fuel is around 0.75kg/Litre, so 60 Litres plus the tank itself...say 75kg nearer to the back than the front. 

Porsche have their fuel tanks near to the front.  That represents about 5% of the overall weight, so take 5% off the rear and add to the front and the numbers move back from 911 weight distribution.

Given that there is no front boot on the Evora, I wonder if a front fuel tank would be a better location.

 

I thought the fuel tank was located low down under what would be the rear seats, so forward of the rear axle and great for the centre of gravity being the same level as the floor base. The 60 litre tank in the Evora (I seem to add about 48-50ltrs max when it says I need to fill up) is lower and squatter than the 60ltr pro-alloy in my VX.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Back on topic.

thanks all for the answers to my questions. I have another - for those with 410's how do you find the Cups 2 in the wet? Also how do they cope with cold road temps and standing water?

I'm wondering how much the cup 2's contribute to the feel of the 410, and if at later date putting something more weather friendly like MS4S on them would change the feel of this car. Anyone running something different to the Cup 2's?

 

Thanks !

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Hadn't realised this had gone off topic as mostly it is answering various points/questions posed.

When i got my 410 it was a wet weekend and I had to travel 750 miles, over mixed roads (A, B and Dual/Motorway) and the tires where fine even though they were new and unscrubbed.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Cup2 were fine....until I failed to notice I’d gone down to the wear markers. Then they’re weren’t fine... sub 10c , moist conditions and I was having a ‘moment’.

But otherwise been perfect in any conditions, just remember it’s all about temperatures with these.

5000miles , new rears please.

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Black n gold

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I was just about getting 5k miles out of my OEM Pirelli's on the low powered (but oh so sweet) NA - so, either I was driving like a god or you've been driving like a pussy @stubox!

 

 

Lol only joking with you.......:driving:If the Cup2's need temperature then I'm stuffed in the winter living up here.

On a more serious on topic note, can someone please confirm the soft (loss of power) rev limiter kick in in normal modes and Sport modes?  It seems to be around 6300/6400 and 6800 in my car. I had a feeling it should be more like 6.8 and 7.2 but don't know why. Thanks.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I was just about getting 5k miles out of my OEM Pirelli's on the low powered (but oh so sweet) NA - so, either I was driving like a god or you've been driving like a pussy @stubox!

I’d say at least half on mways, 2.0k proper driving on decent roads in Spain and France the rest driving normally dodging potholes locally ....

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Black n gold

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@C8RKH Rev limiter should be 6.6 in normal mode, 7 in sport/race/off

From people I know with Cup 2s on other cars, they're fine in most conditions while they're fairly new, but after they've worn a bit their loss of traction can be quite sudden. They also don't last that long, but I think that's to be expected with that kind of tyre.

I find with all Evoras, the response of the car is dramatically different if you're "on it", keep the car above 3.5k and they just go. This will make a difference - when driving a normal car you own daily, you're not pushing it all the time. Jump in a car for a test drive and you're probably pushing it harder.

I do need to get the geo on my 400 checked, I've found these cars (and most cars with double wishbones suspension) incredibly sensitive to geo - small adjustments make a huge difference to feel and response.

James Martin (JayEmm)
Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast

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I got the geo on my NA done every time it went in for a service or any major work.  Just seemed silly not to given the state of our roads in the UK in general.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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1 hour ago, bosshog said:

Back on topic.

thanks all for the answers to my questions. I have another - for those with 410's how do you find the Cups 2 in the wet? Also how do they cope with cold road temps and standing water?

I'm wondering how much the cup 2's contribute to the feel of the 410, and if at later date putting something more weather friendly like MS4S on them would change the feel of this car. Anyone running something different to the Cup 2's?

 

Thanks !

Cup 2s are horrific in the wet. Add a bit of cold and they are borderline dangerous imo. I pulled out of a juntion in cold wet conditions and the car just 180d back into the junction. All low speed and with TC on. On the same trip the rear broke away randomly halfway through 3rd on part throttle . Of course as soon as we hit April and it warmed it's better but I don't bother taking mine out in the wet now. Over winter I'll probably get a spare set of wheels or just park it. 

In the wet the cups are pretty good they are super soft you even get hook up noise which us pretty cool even at low speeds. I won' replace them though I'll probably get contis or maybe Nangkang NS2R if they are available. 

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On a couple of previous topics.

Re Cup 2 tyres, I have no personal experience but a main dealer recently told me about the owner of a new 410 who sold it after a few thousand miles as he could not relax after spinning twice and the rear often unexpectedly breaking away on wet roundabouts etc.   Thank you for the previous comments about wear state and temperature.

On a sad topic mentioned previously, the replacement on the 4xx cars of the three rpm warning  indicators by the GSI thing is, to me, far more than some unfortunate technicality imposed by modern construction regulations. It is a major loss.

Most car manufacturers take care in preserving little touches that their brands have carried over generations of their products, evolving them in some way perhaps, but seeing them as signifying something about their history and character.  In choosing to implement the GSI by sacrificing the rpm indicators instead of adding an LED somewhere, Lotus showed no such awareness or regard. They simply sacrificed what was useful and wholly in the spirit of a performance machine, not just by removing it, but fitting in its place an insult, something entirely alien to its nature. Something only just conceivably of use to the most unthinking, insensitive and ignorant driver of an A to B box.  Vandalism of a symbolic item that I would have thought Lotus should be proud to claim was part of its DNA.

I am currently considering whether to go the 410 route, or to spend less on removing weight from, and adding Komotech power to, my Evora S SR.  Picking up from the ‘Dear Geely’ thread, I note the three 12v sockets, the engine temp gauge, the independent mirror fold switch, the clear Sport mode throttle effect - with button adjacent to the steering wheel, the characterful interior - and a cargo net!  All on my current car.  And rpm warning lights.  I’m some way from sold on a 410 at present.

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The 410 has a cargo net, at least mine does. 

This is a Cup 2 tyre

E1FFCD04-87B3-4382-9D4F-94E8C97E269E.jpeg.b928c7c2bf491398a4c5034e58572e97.jpeg

does it look like a paragon of wet weather performance ? Be a little circumspect in the cold weather and you won’t die.

The wet weather performance is quite adequate given what this tyre is capable off in the dry. But if you’re not able to drive with such a combo then there is the excellent Pilot Super Sports or a few others. Be careful though as I hear they’re not so good in the snow...

The Gsi is nannying at the worst level. Plenty of nice change up lights on sale , sure a decent dealer/auto electrician could fit one.

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Black n gold

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Just to add to the tyre discussion. I don't use the cup2's in the cold, I have a spare set of wheels with MPSS's on for the 2 weeks it goes below 10 degrees here 😊

I do use it in the torrential rain that we have here though and I have not had any 'moments' on the cup 2's even with the rural roads temporarily awash with streams of water 2 inches deep. I think they are just very temperature dependent.

 

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3 hours ago, Stubox said:

The 410 has a cargo net, at least mine does. 

This is a Cup 2 tyre

E1FFCD04-87B3-4382-9D4F-94E8C97E269E.jpeg.b928c7c2bf491398a4c5034e58572e97.jpeg

does it look like a paragon of wet weather performance ? Be a little circumspect in the cold weather and you won’t die.

The wet weather performance is quite adequate given what this tyre is capable off in the dry. But if you’re not able to drive with such a combo then there is the excellent Pilot Super Sports or a few others. Be careful though as I hear they’re not so good in the snow...

The Gsi is nannying at the worst level. Plenty of nice change up lights on sale , sure a decent dealer/auto electrician could fit one.

I've no experience of the cup 2 tyres, but having had P Zero's on my Cayman, I'm not a massive fan.

I got sensible mileage, but then with just over 3mm of tread left, they sort of switched off in the wet weather.

I'm not a timid driver but after the back end came round twice at normal speeds, I found myself being very aware and driving slower than other normal road users.

There was a post on PH's about this and the consensus was that they only started working a degree or so higher than other performance tyres.  I don't know how the compound compares between P zeros and cup 2's, but I'm more than happy to have Pilot super sports on my 400

Pirelli tyres also seem to have a very wide shoulder without the a full depth channel and when the tyre is new it looks fine, but halfway through the mileage the shallower channel has normally completely gone and as a result there seems to be a wide area of the overall width with effectively very little tread to disperse water and the tyre also then looks badly worn to the eye as well and yet is only about 60% through it's usable life span.

 

 

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The pic of the cup 2 above shows perfectly what the problem is. Most semi slicks (which is what they are) have to have a tread pattern of some kind so like the a048 or r888 they have a fancy pattern but the cup despatches with that and has the water clearing bands. So they "look" like a proper tyre but the horizontal slits do nothing. Iv'e not had bad aquaplaning like ao48s which is quite an experience so they are ok ish in that regard but I reckon they will catch a few people out when the weather turns! It was an eye opener for me with a lot if drivibg experience in every combination  of car and tyre you could think of. 

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This was a hoot on Cup 2's in someone else's spanking new £105k car! Not! They're certainly not a tyre I enjoyed in the cold but they were other worldly with some heat in them. 

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Guys, just keep in mind that, if we are talking about rainy conditions, let say usually 0.5 to 1mm of standing water on the ground, the compound is the only thing that matter for your wet performance. And in this case, yes, cup2 compound work a lot better at T° above 7°C. It does not mean that you will kill yourself below that temperature, but that you have to expect a drop in grip level and adapt your driving to that New state. 

If we are talking about standing water like puddles or water crossing the road (2mm or more) then it's only up to the thread pattern. In that case, the thread pattern height of a cup 2 is lower than usual tires to keep stiffness and rigidity for greater response. So it means that the longitudinal grooves that you see on the picture are really here to do their job but they can not contain as much water as on a 'normal' tire, just a volume story... So the tire will get hydroplanning sooner no matter the T°

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my 400 is booked in for its annual service next week, and I shall be fitting Cup 2s all round, as I really enjoyed the turn in speed and feel of the 410, and I think the tyres are a major part of that.  My geo is already "410" spec, so I shall report back how the car feels once I get a few miles under my belt.

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