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Tex

Lotus Exige Cup 430

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Short term bang for buck the KT460 looks better value if Komotec dyno numbers are to be believed. Long term it might not be such a good deal if you throw the Komotec catalogue at a Sport 350/380. At least in the UK. Time will tell how that works out but Komotec cars have underperformed against expectations in my experience. Zero understeer in the Cup 430 I drove, too much oversteer if anything.

Each to their own with this, whatever anyone prefers to drive and own is the right way to go for them. Factory 430 is definitely the route I’d go and I’d have absolutely no interest in modifying it either. Previous Lotus was bone stock and so is the current one and it’s staying that way.

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1 hour ago, The Pits said:

Short term bang for buck the KT460 looks better value if Komotec dyno numbers are to be believed. Long term it might not be such a good deal if you throw the Komotec catalogue at a Sport 350/380. At least in the UK. Time will tell how that works out but Komotec cars have underperformed against expectations in my experience. Zero understeer in the Cup 430 I drove, too much oversteer if anything.

Each to their own with this, whatever anyone prefers to drive and own is the right way to go for them. Factory 430 is definitely the route I’d go and I’d have absolutely no interest in modifying it either. Previous Lotus was bone stock and so is the current one and it’s staying that way.

I concur ,

There is no doubt though that the Komotec 460’s are rapid and appear a little more torquey than a Cup 430,  but the key point for the modification is the actual Exige model used.

If using a Cup 360 or a 380 you already have a well sorted car ( brakes, suspension, low weight etc ) but if the donor car is a lesser model Exige then you have a high expense to achieve the handling required for that power. Also it is going to be heavier than a Cup Exige.

The Cup Exiges are the pinnacle for Lotus and out of the box the Cup 430 achieves everything but if not then there is of course the EX475 Komotec 

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I think it becomes more challenging given Komotec can now offer the same charger/cooler setup as the 430 and it’s well proven the shifter can also be installed on the earlier cars. 


www.alias23.com

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10 minutes ago, alias23 said:

I think it becomes more challenging given Komotec can now offer the same charger/cooler setup as the 430 and it’s well proven the shifter can also be installed on the earlier cars. 

... with 490 hp and 520 nm in combination with standard gearbox ... ok, still not officially released.

 

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2 hours ago, The Pits said:

Time will tell how that works out but Komotec cars have underperformed against expectations in my experience. 

I think every lotus from factory which has been dynod has generally underperformed.


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It's a good thing to have the choice. Stock beautiful Exige CUP 430 and aftermarket solutions. What else do you want ?... money... me too 🙂

 

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Could you not quite easily get 460bhp or more out of any exige that is charge cooled from the factory with a smaller supercharger pulley and a tune?

The answer IMHO would be yes.

The stock engine internals are proven up  to ~500bhp, so I don’t know why more 410/430 and evora 400 owners arnt doing this. 

Edited by BfranklynV6
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35 minutes ago, rallyesax said:

Because everything is not just about power 😉

I agree. But people are talking about the KT460 being more bang for buck partly because it’s more powerful, when a simple drop in pulley size would get you there on any chargecooled lotus. 

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19 hours ago, Sebastian Ritter said:

... with 490 hp and 520 nm in combination with standard gearbox ... ok, still not officially released.

 

so If I put in order , for 350's we do have 3 stages , 390 , 430 , 460 ... 

and for 410 /430 , we will have 475 , 490 ( doesn t make sens imo 15 hp more than the first one is peanut ) and the last one 530 ? 

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5 hours ago, Ben410 said:

so If I put in order , for 350's we do have 3 stages , 390 , 430 , 460 ... 

and for 410 /430 , we will have 475 , 490 ( doesn t make sens imo 15 hp more than the first one is peanut ) and the last one 530 ? 

So for clarification what is the difference with the 475 to the 490 as currently you don’t advertise an Exige 490 upgrade only a 475 ?

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12 hours ago, Tex said:

So for clarification what is the difference with the 475 to the 490 as currently you don’t advertise an Exige 490 upgrade only a 475 ?

The difference is the airbox, which you can see in the photo above. Basically the stages are as follows (always accompanied by the corresponding tune).

Exige S/350 (also Evora S)

  • Stage 1 (390 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (430 HP) stage 1 plus compressor pulley, carbon airbox, stage 2 tune
  • Stage 3 (460 HP) stage 2 plus charge cooler, stage 3 tune

Exige 410/430 (also Evora 410/430 and 3eleven)

  • Stage 1 (475 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (490 HP) stage 1 plus  carbon airbox, stage 2 tune (already in the online shop for the 3eleven)

All above 500 HP requires internal engine mods and the squential gearbox, which is why you won't find it in the online shop. 

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2 hours ago, TBD said:

The difference is the airbox, which you can see in the photo above. Basically the stages are as follows (always accompanied by the corresponding tune).

Exige S/350 (also Evora S)

  • Stage 1 (390 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (430 HP) stage 1 plus compressor pulley, carbon airbox, stage 2 tune
  • Stage 3 (460 HP) stage 2 plus charge cooler, stage 3 tune

Exige 410/430 (also Evora 410/430 and 3eleven)

  • Stage 1 (475 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (490 HP) stage 1 plus  carbon airbox, stage 2 tune (already in the online shop for the 3eleven)

All above 500 HP requires internal engine mods and the squential gearbox, which is why you won't find it in the online shop. 

Also add EX500 from the online shop

  • Stage 4 (500hp) Stage 3 plus TVS1900 Supercharger and forged engine internals

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On 09/10/2019 at 08:35, TBD said:

The difference is the airbox, which you can see in the photo above. Basically the stages are as follows (always accompanied by the corresponding tune).

Exige S/350 (also Evora S)

  • Stage 1 (390 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (430 HP) stage 1 plus compressor pulley, carbon airbox, stage 2 tune
  • Stage 3 (460 HP) stage 2 plus charge cooler, stage 3 tune

Exige 410/430 (also Evora 410/430 and 3eleven)

  • Stage 1 (475 HP): new headers, sportscat, airfilter, stage 1 tune
  • Stage 2 (490 HP) stage 1 plus  carbon airbox, stage 2 tune (already in the online shop for the 3eleven)

All above 500 HP requires internal engine mods and the squential gearbox, which is why you won't find it in the online shop. 

I’m not sure this is accurate as it seems the Carbon airbox is part of the Stage 1 tune  902C07A3-A293-4C7B-9AD3-99E10AA4ACA6.thumb.png.d8a0b5c8631a73b31f0e62cebf8ce4e9.png

On 08/10/2019 at 12:09, BfranklynV6 said:

I agree. But people are talking about the KT460 being more bang for buck partly because it’s more powerful, when a simple drop in pulley size would get you there on any chargecooled lotus. 

Interested in your view on improving power on the Cup 430 

So what is the precise solution as currently The Komotec one is pretty costly for  the gain of 40hp

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The solution would be seeking out the most reputable exige V6 custom tuner, then sourcing a smaller pulley, then telling them you are after 460-480bhp depending on what’s safe. 

We already know the stock exhaust can flow a massive torque increase (see TVS1900) and that’s unchargecooled.  

Then tell them there is an entire market of people with exige 410s/evora 400s who would be keen for a cost effective power bump into the high 400s without changing out their exhaust/air intake system which is fiddly, costly and harder to reverse. (Carrot)

Then tell them you have an internet following and you would be publishing all your results, and the tuner company name online. (Stick)

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On 12/10/2019 at 08:14, BfranklynV6 said:

The solution would be seeking out the most reputable exige V6 custom tuner, then sourcing a smaller pulley, then telling them you are after 460-480bhp depending on what’s safe. 

We already know the stock exhaust can flow a massive torque increase (see TVS1900) and that’s unchargecooled.  

Then tell them there is an entire market of people with exige 410s/evora 400s who would be keen for a cost effective power bump into the high 400s without changing out their exhaust/air intake system which is fiddly, costly and harder to reverse. (Carrot)

Then tell them you have an internet following and you would be publishing all your results, and the tuner company name online. (Stick)

Easier said than done at the moment

No one appears to want to offer a Chargecooled Supercharger upgrade in the U.K, strangely !!

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tex said:

Easier said than done at the moment

No one appears to want to offer a Chargecooled Supercharger upgrade in the U.K, strangely !!

 

 

I apologise for getting your hopes up! I’m very surprised that nobody would offer this. If you sourced a smaller pulley yourself and said ‘I want a custom tune aiming for 460bhp’ would they still say no?

Potential risk to a lotus tuner = they blow up your engine and they have to replace it. £7-10k??

Potential gain = breaking the Komotec monopoly in lotus performance upgrades by offering a far simpler, more cost effective and more easily reversible solution. Much more to gain than lose IMHO.

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@BfranklynV6, the ‘custom tune’ that you make sound so easy is the stumbling block. Lotus encrypt their ECU code. Most tuners don’t want to go to the hassle and cost of tryIng to crack the encryption. 

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Just a few things to keep in mind in no particular order

I own a cup 380 and I fitted a Komotec 430 kit then upgraded to the 460 kit...

 

Dont want to repeat it but as already wrote I broke the engine two times once when completely standard (on track at 2400km) and the second engine (new from Lotus) after fitting the Komotec 460 kit (on track at 4500 km)

The second engine broke a piston on track but started to smoke slightly black on acceleration before but the good think is that nothing else broke and I could just rebuild it with forged parts.

 

Not to argue if caused by my use or not but the standard internals and especially pistons are not really strong so I would at minimum say that if they can be used until 500 bhp really depends on the use of the car...

(I think nothings wrong at all with komotec kit and probably did not cause the problem the standard pistons are weak even with oem power)

 

For some unknow reason (electronics mapping temperature other) it seems that there aren t a lot of failures of the oem pistons on the charge cooled later versions as the 430 cup even if the oem pistons are the same  pistons...

 

I would say that the 430 Komotec kit is really a good bang for buck

 

The tvs 1900 even not chargecooled can give easely 430 bhp with an exhaust airbox and custom tune... and you really feel that it has more low torque compared to the 1320

Don t know how much you loose on track when weather is warm but still better than the smaller supercharger

 

Even if I m not so sure about the numbers of Komotec at their local dyno (did anyone had a dyno at komotec and later on another dyno?) as the standard Lotus 380 are usually not making all the power they should I have to say that the power difference was there (40 bhp more form standard to komotec 430 kit) on another dyno

 

Not that easy to get power with just a pulley and a tune on many models...

You should consider that the oem catalyzers are not really ideal they keep a lot of heat and if they brake they can damage the engine (as you can read on 2bular website)

On the 380 the standard rev limiter was lowered to only 6800 rpm and many tuners do not offer a map that will bring it back to 7000 or 7200 rpm (at the moment only Komotec )

If you make the supercharger spin faster (and lotus already did that on the 380) you will heat the air so especially on track it will be worst after a few laps

The recommended fuel for a standard car and even more far a tuned car is 98 and I think that those cars really have to get good quality fuel also because Lotus did not change anything from the oem normally aspirated camry v6 engine

(compression ratio sensors etc) but they added a supercharger and a lot of power so that made it weaker if used with less good fuel...

 

Each tuner as komotec SSC and others have a different approach and they offer in fact good products but they also have to deal with a very special market and deal with the oem weak points of the lotus cars...

What can they do if the oem 380 is in fact not 380 bhp on a dyno and the pistons of toyota aren t really strong?

If they would say that every car should be fitted with forged internals and then a whole lot of expensive parts to technically work properly many would just go somewhere else or keep it standard

 

Edited by Maxi_z

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I think the Komotec route to get an additional 40hp from a Cup 430 is quite logical and may well preserve the engine to some degree. The issue that I have is it seems very expensive for what is actually done to the Car and in fact it is the same price for a  410 where you are getting an extra 60hp. 

Imo the 475 upgrade for the Cup should be less 

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That’s a shame that lotus encrypt their ECU. I wonder why they go to the trouble of doing this, when some much larger manufacturers don’t.

Maxi, it sounds like you have been really unlucky. No amount of ‘use’ should cause an engine failure on the standard tune. These failures do seem to be quite rare though, with a lot of people running at least 460bhp through the stock internals without issue. 
 

I’m in agreement that almost all of the KT upgrade packages seem over priced. Having a feel for the modification scene on other platforms (GT86/M4) I can say that bang for buck seems less with the KT lotus packages. I’m sure some of this expense is the large amount of R+D and the quality of the parts/labour, but some of it has to be their monopoly position.

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BatMobile, picked up my car from B&C after some work and they were prepping a metallic black 430 - is that your one?

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Most manufacturers now encrypt their ECUs as standard. You just see a lot more ECU tuning options available for different marques because the size of the market is much larger and therefore the ECU wizards who find their way through the encryption can justify the cost, resource, and time to make it happen as the market size is big enough to justify. However the Lotus marquee is actually very very small in terms of market size and therefore opportunity.

I've personally been looking to find a way into the ECU for my own usage and it is not easy which arguably it shouldn't be as its encrypted. The fact that some tuners have spent the time (it wouldn't surprise me if we're talking a few 100 hours) and invested to find a way should be applauded in my opinion as again the market size is soo small at least their looking to bring something to the market for us to benefit. I don't see it as a deliberate monopoly.


www.alias23.com

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