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New Exige pricing

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@vd9 we're all special and allowed our different points of view but I have to disagree with your denouncing of my personal rationale re why a Lotus is special as "pathetic nonsense". It is my personal rationale after all and explains my love/passion for the brand. Why are you into Lotus?

Anyway, to answer your points. I believe the engineering philosophy and the engineering behind the Exige (and other Lotus cars) to be exceptional when compared to the mass market offerings. The aluminium chassis may be an old design but that does not mean it was not, is not, engineering excellence. The design and engineering behind the steering and suspension is magic, and on the more expensive cars I challenge you to show me the volume and quality of manufacturing for the carbon panels. You have to be prepared to spend double the Exige money to get that quality and volume of carbon on other cars.

I agree, the interior is more, err, functional than say a Porsche with it's recycled VAG plastic parts and smoothly designed plastic buttons. Great if you want your sports car to look like an Audi saloon from the drivers seat.

£100k for a car that will do zero to 60 in a shade over 3 seconds and lap the track lap after lap all day without consuming half the planet. That's great engineering is it not?

Ok, so £100k is a little steep. But a big part of that is down to scale and volume. Lotus just cannot compete on price, like a craftsman cannot compete with Ikea. Is that really pathetic nonsense.

In a world where a boggo Fiesta can now have a £20k list price, and people are prepared to shell out £60-80k+ for run of the mill branded SUV tanks is it really vastly overpriced?  Against the monolithic Porsche, well yes. As they are like tampons and every **nt seems to have one so their mass/scale and the SUV susidises their sports cars as well as the millions of volume from VW and Audi. Have you looked at Audi R8 new prices recently? How about the new Aston V8 Vantage? Are they massively overpriced too?

@alias23 - twas always been the case that new buyer takes the hit. Why should it be any different for the Exige? I'll happily buy a 430cup when someone else has taken the hit too 

Would I like the 410/430 to be cheaper? Hell yes. Let's see what the new car is and the price point. If cheaper and more mass produced like, with less analogue feel, then no doubt a whole new set of whinging will befall us.

 


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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I sense this thread could go back to the old times of the GT4 vs Exige thread many moons ago... I do agree let’s calm language as all opinions have value :)

My view which could be completely wrong, Lotus needed to increase sales and profit, the easiest option was to provide new variants with a few fancy pieces and limited edition promises to justify the increase in sales price.

Production and operations wouldn’t need much change or investment. 

It isn’t rocket science as a strategy and the core of the business and car haven’t fundamentally changed... which is where I question the price to value for the actual customer... hence the many posts you read about owners who just can’t justify the switching costs to upgrade which is a real shame for the brand and will effect future sales.

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www.alias23.com

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I think the issue is the leap in price from 350 to 410/430....350 say 60k....430 approaching 110k.....I know the 430 has better suspension/carbon /much quicker etc but is that really 50k?

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8 minutes ago, Ali tuck said:

I know the 430 has better suspension/carbon /much quicker etc but is that really 50k?

In my opinion - NO hence why soo many people are driving all the way to Mendig to see Daniel at Komotec to upgrade to KT460 vs switching.


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2 minutes ago, alias23 said:

In my opinion - NO hence why soo many people are upgrading to KT460 vs switching.

Undoubtably they are(430) very special cars but I just can’t see the 50k premium.Second hand values seem to ducking into the high 80k mark now but still a lot of wonga!

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So what do you car industry luminaries think Lotus should do then?

Do any of you actually believe Lotus could just knock £40k off the Cup 430 and all would be well? If so please explain how that would work when margins are already very tight and in some cases cars are sold at a loss to both dealer and Lotus.

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8 minutes ago, The Pits said:

So what do you car industry luminaries think Lotus should do then?

Do any of you actually believe Lotus could just knock £40k off the Cup 430 and all would be well? If so please explain how that would work when margins are already very tight and in some cases cars are sold at a loss to both dealer and Lotus.

So how did they use to sell the V6 for circa £55k new before prices went a little ‘exclusive’?

You can’t honeslty believe a bit of carbon, some nitrons, and an engine costs circa £55k?

Can you deep down in your heart (taking any brand loyalty or any association with the Lotus Group out that can distort a view) argue that the brand purpose of the everyday drivers car is seriously at threat with today’s prices?

I think the points raised are pretty fair, equally the movement in the market kinda proves the point... we are all lotus owners because we love our cars and in turn have something in common so let’s not fall out :)

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www.alias23.com

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In the past two or three years haven’t Lotus moved into profit for the first time in several decades? That would suggest that the new strategy is working.

The new models may look expensive compared to their predecessors, but not so much against their competitors. Sadly I probably won't be able to afford another new one, but that’s okay, I love what I already have.

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18 minutes ago, Neal H said:

In the past two or three years haven’t Lotus moved into profit for the first time in several decades? That would suggest that the new strategy is working.

Maybe... in the short term it’s proven itself but given cars at dealers aren’t moving in the long term it may bite.

Investment into production and (dare I say it) automation is needed to help improve their ability to scale, find margin, and allow more cars to be sold at a price range which doesn’t discount the traditional buyer and encourages ‘new’ buyers to take a chance on something different... just as I did...

Problem is this isn’t a quick fix, requires investment, and takes time something Lotus didn’t have... but as the senior leadership team move on after achieving I guess their short term objectives the team do need to think about the long term and their ability to scale and mature.

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18 minutes ago, alias23 said:

So how did they use to sell the V6 for circa £55k new before prices went a little ‘exclusive’? They were never £55k, most V6S were over £60k otr.

You can’t honeslty believe a bit of carbon, some nitrons, and an engine costs circa £55k? Where and when have I ever claimed that?

Can you deep down in your heart (taking any brand loyalty or any association with the Lotus Group out that can distort a view) argue that the brand purpose of the everyday drivers car is seriously at threat with today’s prices? Struggling to work out what this actually means. You invented 'the everyday drivers car brand purpose' a few minutes ago.

I think the points raised are pretty fair, equally the movement in the market kinda proves the point... we are all lotus owners because we love our cars and in turn have something in common so let’s not fall out :) I don't believe anyone's falling out with anyone. Just a chat about cars. Sad day when people lose perspective of what really matters in life. Exige prices definitely not in that catagory.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, The Pits said:

I'd love it if McLaren did the 600LT for under £100k too. But do my best not to waste time wishing it were the case or telling McLaren that they've got it all wrong and that it's 'just' a 570S with a few pits stuck on, they're ripping people off, you'd have to be an idiot to buy one.... and so on.

Lets not get into a McLaren vs Lotus thread lol

Lotus were always considered expensive this is nothing new. The Esprit was always 'how much for a 4 cylinder?!' The Turbo Esprit had a higher list price than the Ferrari 308 in 1980. The Esprit Sport 300 was £65k back in 1993. I'm sure most here can remember the hoo har when the S2 Exige passed £40k. The first Exige V6s and Evoras were real bargains in truth, as was the Evora 400.

I don’t have the history so take your comments on board and seem fair...

JMG's strategy of rapid model updates and price increases was to get the cars to the point where they are profitable. That plan has succeeded in finding a backer for Lotus and the new model launches has ground to a halt. The current cars are all at the end of their product cycles and without updates or any new marketing drives you would expect sales to drop off.

It’s a factor but I sense price to value is a bigger driver for most buyers vs marketing (which isn’t that great) and product variations which everyone got bored of anyway and possibly deterred people wanting to buy new worried about being superseded the next week with another limited edition launch.

We all have to work with what we can afford. Good for those who got into an Exige V6 when they cheaper. Good for those buying now at a big discount. Good for those who choose the Komotec route. But it would also be nice to see some appreciation for those who are able and willing to pay the current prices. They are keeping the lights on currently.

Agree there could just be more of them if pricing was better... I might test these big discounts as you have got me looking at 430’s again :)

PS. I can ping you my sales invoice I purchased my new V6 in 2014 for £55k. I don’t think anyone has called anyone an idiot... as per my note let’s keep friendly. 100% agree more important things in life bud :)

 

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It's all marketing and it works, and who could blame Lotus. Noble did the same with the M12 GTO to M400, basically the same cars, but no where near the price hikes Lotus have been trying. That's the beauty of the second hand car market for people that can't justify 100k+, 48k outright was enough for me, but over doubling that for new, nah happy with a 4 year old v6 banger! As long as everyone's happy who cares...

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I’ve had an idea.....what about a group buy of 430’s....get say 20 of us ,all go to one dealer .......bingo! 430 for 75k?😆

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7 minutes ago, Ali tuck said:

I’ve had an idea.....what about a group buy of 430’s....get say 20 of us ,all go to one dealer .......bingo! 430 for 75k?😆

Or just wait a few more weeks for the depreciation? ;) 

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10 minutes ago, Ali tuck said:

I’ve had an idea.....what about a group buy of 430’s....get say 20 of us ,all go to one dealer .......bingo! 430 for 75k?😆

A group buy isn't a bad option lol


www.alias23.com

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6 minutes ago, alias23 said:

A group buy isn't a bad option lol

The more I think about it .........

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Give it a few years and they'll be something better, I'd rather a second hand F430 ha ha, still with a load of change left.

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Lotus want and need to attract new customers to the brand. All of the debate about current prices here is, naturally enough, from the point of view of existing customers. The number of people who can afford a Lotus but don't currently consider one is far greater than the number of sales (which mostly come from repeat customers like us lot). Fully accepting that Lotus cars aren't for everyone, let's say as much as 95% of Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Aston Martin buyers would not want a Lotus even if they drove one. It's not a massive stretch then to imagine that just 5% might actually prefer something more focused and communicative or want something that is better suited to trackdays perhaps. The current 1500 cars per year level isn't even 1% so you can see the potential. New customers have no idea what an Exige cost 5 years ago so they just don't look at it like we do. Many of them are used to paying a lot more for their sports cars.

But it costs money to reach these people and get them booking test drives. Lotus have been plugging holes in a sinking canoe since JMG left, they haven't started paddling forward yet. JMG left them with a lot of work to do to get ready for the big change that's planned and much of the focus is on future cars. So the current cars remain fantastic, overlooked, unappreciated driver's cars. The Exige remains a unique driving experience and no one will be making cars like the Exige soon. Not even Lotus. If they get it right and find a way to appeal to a broader audience with different priorities to most of us here then it might not appeal as strongly to those of us who like these extreme, crazy little road racers.

 

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1 hour ago, The Pits said:

Lotus want and need to attract new customers to the brand. All of the debate about current prices here is, naturally enough, from the point of view of existing customers. The number of people who can afford a Lotus but don't currently consider one is far greater than the number of sales (which mostly come from repeat customers like us lot). Fully accepting that Lotus cars aren't for everyone, let's say as much as 95% of Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Aston Martin buyers would not want a Lotus even if they drove one. It's not a massive stretch then to imagine that just 5% might actually prefer something more focused and communicative or want something that is better suited to trackdays perhaps. The current 1500 cars per year level isn't even 1% so you can see the potential. New customers have no idea what an Exige cost 5 years ago so they just don't look at it like we do. Many of them are used to paying a lot more for their sports cars.

But it costs money to reach these people and get them booking test drives. Lotus have been plugging holes in a sinking canoe since JMG left, they haven't started paddling forward yet. JMG left them with a lot of work to do to get ready for the big change that's planned and much of the focus is on future cars. So the current cars remain fantastic, overlooked, unappreciated driver's cars. The Exige remains a unique driving experience and no one will be making cars like the Exige soon. Not even Lotus. If they get it right and find a way to appeal to a broader audience with different priorities to most of us here then it might not appeal as strongly to those of us who like these extreme, crazy little road racers.

 

Now that is a well put together piece, with strong arguments for strong pricing. The only issue is there wont be that many returning customers unless the value is there for the extra money.

And I have to agree that perhaps the V6b Exige will be the last of its kind, which will be a sad day indeed.

cheers

Mark

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Interesting debate. 

One other angle of looking at recent price rises is the fact it’s helped keep residuals high on older models.  I’m at fault of complaining about new prices, but in reality by buying a 3-6 month old Lotus, I ran some of my cars over the last few years and sold them for what I paid (or very close) for them  3-10 months earlier. I’m sure others have done the same.  So it’s not all doom and gloom for current owners  

 “Riding the gravy train”  ;) 

Ah well back to earth with a bump in the current market .  Hard times out there for dealers  and private sellers 

 

Edited by DJW

Previously owned : Exige 350,  Evora 400,  Exige V6S,  Esprit GT3,  2-11 SC,  Evora S,  Elite 501

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