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LotusFella

labour time for b service.

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Ok great where can I get a set for the front.

thx

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7 minutes ago, LotusFella said:

Ok great where can I get a set for the front.

thx

@Bibs has a shop on here who can supply 

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1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Really?

It's Hilton owned by a private person

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Ahh not to be confused with Hylton - doh

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Horror of horrors!

The question is: do you really want to expose your Esprit to these people again?

I wouldn't. Not in a country mile. Never.

And if they are an official dealer for Lotus, I'd write to Lotus asap.

To be fair i cannot know if this is a highly unusual single example of bad Work, or it's more systematic. Time may tell if more customers show up with similar stories. But no workshop should do a job like that.

Another thing is that most brands will experience this type of bad service or repair sooner or later and there's plent y of stories out there. Subtract some and you'll have a picture, and it shouldn't scare you away from Lotus, because it has nothing to do with the brand.

I'd not be driving the car.

And I would ship it straight away to Gary (Sparky) on here, or someone else rightly knowledgable in all Things Lotus and ask him kindly if he could be paid to go Things over thoroughly to uncover all potential errors, and then make a service (C) plus a few other things, now that things are off the car. Doesn't matter if he's near to you or far from you. It's what's best to do.

I wouldn't trust the belts were done correctly. And that is serious.

If they are done as they should, then fine you avoid a serious motorcrash. If not and you don't have it propperly looked after right now... Well, look into a wrath of trouble.

So, have it towed to Sparky or someone else doing the right thing, have everything looked over and have the parts needed changed. It's cheaper, faster and better.

If the complaint towards the workshop who did the service on your car does not benefit your way, then never mind, as you at least saw it coming in due time to avoid a costly and potential crash and/or engine failure.

And I would be very clear in my complaint: compensation in the form of a refund in Cash from a dangerous badly done service, while in the same time being absolutely clear that you will not leave you car with those people Again. It must be corrected by someone else, doing the job correctly.

On a last note: the way the bushes are done should lead to that workshop being deemed unfit to Work on Lotus cars. In fact any car at all.

Regarding bushes: get the propper ones from Lotus' Lotac programme. Bibs sell them in this webshop and if you are a full member, there's normally a fair discount. Pay once for propper ones, or pay over and over again for lesser parts.

And dismount that radiator and have it pressure tested in a giant bath. I did and there were some very near soon to fail places on my radiator, while still being tight and fully operational. But better having it rebuilt now and done propperly in the correct material, and have it safe the next 15 years of great ownership. It's not even expensive to have the main radiator rebuilt. Took the specialist I used here in Denmark 3 days and I paid 2000 dkr - 175 gbp if I remember correctly. That way you can also have the frame blasted and powdercoated. Same goes for fan suspension arms.

Let us hear what comes out of it.

Again: I'd claim my money back partially, and I'd not be leaving the car with those same guys again.

I don't want to scare you, but only wish you keep your Esprit in good shape and you to be able to drive a safe car.

Kind regards,

Jacques

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Ps - sadly uk law is explicitly clear -they must have the opportunity to rectify 

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In that case, I wouldn't risk my car. Leave and enjoy that you avoided major problems in due time.

I'd still be writing a polite explanatory letter to Lotus.

Kind regards,

Jacques

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Yes I will get the bushes from bibs. I’ll let u all know what they say tomorrow. I email the sales guy so may phone and speak to the manager tomorrow. Now stuck in A&E waiting to this doctor. My daughters horse stood on her foot tonight😦. Looks like metatarsal broken😪

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See you are in Ely surely GST at Newmarket is nearer and more knowledgeable on esprits

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8 hours ago, LotusFella said:

I email the sales guy so may phone and speak to the manager tomorrow

Insist everything is in writing.

And sorry to hear about your daughter's foot!

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this is there response.  Perhaps it was just coincidence and they did fall out on the way home?

 

However I found this in the driver footwell just infront of the seat.  I never noticed it before.  Anyone hazard a guess as  to where it maybe from.  It's got paint on it so must be important enough to mark it up incase of movement/comeing undone!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldfgokxula3c0rr/IMG_4442.JPG?dl=0

 

Morning Chris,

 

Very sorry to hear you’ve returned home unhappy.

 

As I mentioned at the time with the brakes, we bled them 3 times to expel all the air as upon initial road test they did seem spongey. We used a pressure bleeder initially, then then conventional ‘pump the pedal’ approach, then the pressure bleeder again. Upon the third time of using the pressure bleeder, there was no air coming out at all, and of course that was at all 4 corners. As you know, all we’ve done is change the fluid, and as far as I’m aware the Kelsey Hayes system requires no special technique and can be bled as per any other, unlike the earlier Delco system. Nevertheless, if you’re saying it wasn’t like that before then something will have to be done. We’d determined the pulling to one side to be a possible effect of the worn bushes.

 

It was the belts that took longer. I can only estimate times to complete works, and unfortunately it took a couple of hours longer than I’d hoped. My initial 6 hour estimate was also only to do the belts themselves, not including the tensioners or idlers. I can reference the hours clocked onto the job on our system, which is actually longer than the hours I’ve charged you. This also confirms that I didn’t charge you for the extra time we spent bleeding the braking system. As a point aside, the Lotus book time is 8.4 hours for a B-service, not including belts or fuel filter, both of which we’ve done as you know.

 

Please see attached photos of the lower wishbone bushes when the car was in our workshop on the morning of the day you collected it. As you can see, they’re perished and worn as I advised you, but intact. Why would we have gouged them out? We haven’t touched them in any way, merely taken photos to reference their condition and advise you they should be changed. Whilst it may seem coincidental, I would have to suggest they’ve failed on your drive home. I say again, why on earth would we gouge them out and then not tell you?

 

To conclude, you returning home unhappy is the worst possible scenario for me, so I hope we can come to some sort of arrangement to resolve things and turn it around.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kccmslsaecru1rq/2018-07-06 08.39.52.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z3ujwduff7bf5ud/2018-07-06 08.39.57.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9w9n6lgbu5cf26/2018-07-06 08.40.03.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdc5evk20j6n7ge/2018-07-06 08.40.07.jpg?dl=0

 

 

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As per my post above, were the nuts/bolts undone (to remove the bushes)?

If not, then to have managed to gouge the bushes out would have left very clear markings surrounding the area because of the tools used-it would no tbe possible to remove those bushes without leaving evidence either that the nut/bolts were undone or that scraping tools were used.

Are there any markings? I couldn't see any but I was looking on my phone screen in the garden and my glasses (of wine) may have affected my eyesight.

17 hours ago, LotusFella said:

ok after putting the car up on the lift I have discovered the following.  Please look at the 2 videos first one was done 1 or so ago when I had a look around the underneath of the car.  The 2nd one was done 5 minutes ago.

I think I'm in shock.

pre castle service please pay attention to the wishbone polybushes

 

they have removed all of the bush material.

 

ps-how long ago was the first video? 1 day/week/month?

Is the old bush material brittle, so could have crumbled?

for the record, I have no connection to Castle, but my feeling is that it is coincidence.

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I'm impressed they'd thought to take photos of the offending bushes.

And 45 miles later, they'd fallen out?

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If I’m not mistaken they are yellow polys. They don’t go brittle. 

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5 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

If I’m not mistaken they are yellow polys. They don’t go brittle. 

OK, but the edges of the bush that protrudes look pretty rough/decayed in the pics from castle and the first video, and bits are missing from them at that time

If we assume Castle did it, how would they have managed to gouge the material out and not leave any marks-IF there are no marks? The bolthead I can see does not look like its been undone recently-but I stand ready to be corrected by Chris who can get up close and personal with them-and certainly the threads would show having been undone.

"I'm impressed they'd thought to take photos of the offending bushes."

In their defence, this was because they'd noted them as needing attention.

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1 hour ago, LotusFella said:

However I found this in the driver footwell just infront of the seat.  I never noticed it before.  Anyone hazard a guess as  to where it maybe from.  It's got paint on it so must be important enough to mark it up incase of movement/comeing undone!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldfgokxula3c0rr/IMG_4442.JPG?dl=0

 

 

There are very few Allen bolt applications on the 918 engine.  This looks like one of the two sump bolts from the end closest to the flywheel. 

It could also be an Allen bolt from one of the seat runners (probably more likely).

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1 hour ago, LotuStuart said:

 

ps-how long ago was the first video? 1 day/week/month?

Is the old bush material brittle, so could have crumbled?

for the record, I have no connection to Castle, but my feeling is that it is coincidence.

My video was done at 17;44 on the 2 July.  I then drove it to them the following day it's 42 miles and because of the cambelts I didn't take it above 3k RPM. 

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Just maybe they were bodge fitted to start with. Wouldn’t be the first time bushes have been cut and stuffed on an Esprit 

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9 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Just maybe they were bodge fitted to start with. Wouldn’t be the first time bushes have been cut and stuffed on an Esprit 

well there are 2 possibilities.

1. They fell out on their own

2. They were removed to backup the story about problems with bleeding the brakes or similar.

 

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1 minute ago, LotusFella said:

well there are 2 possibilities.

1. They fell out on their own

2. They were removed to backup the story about problems with bleeding the brakes or similar.

 

Can you see any evidence of damage consistent with them being dug out?

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I'll have a look tonight.  Either way I need to get the bushes ordered, so are these the correct ones for an 1998 Esprit V8?

https://www.thelotusforums.com/shop/poly-bushes/580-fr-low-w-bone-set-of-4-bushes-lotac05458.html

 

Thanks

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Chris - a point that may help you. If you go to the members section, all the parts manuals are in there, including your V8.

That way you can check the Lotus part number before you buy anything. That part number is also in the TLF shop link you posted above. 

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23 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Chris - a point that may help you. If you go to the members section, all the parts manuals are in there, including your V8.

That way you can check the Lotus part number before you buy anything. That part number is also in the TLF shop link you posted above. 

great thx.

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1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

Chris - a point that may help you. If you go to the members section, all the parts manuals are in there, including your V8.

That way you can check the Lotus part number before you buy anything. That part number is also in the TLF shop link you posted above. 

great thx.

Looks like

2 x Pivot Bush Lower wish bone front A082D4084F

2 x Pivot Bush Lower wish bone rear A075C6000Z

They don't appear to be in the shop?

Cheers

chris

 

 

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You would be better off fitting the LOTAC polybushes. Be aware that 1998 was a changeover year for the front lower wishbone design.

Front lower wishbone, trailing - LOTAC 05454

Front lower wishbone, leading, pre chassis #5517 - LOTAC 05459 (parallel bush)

Front lower wishbone, trailing, chassis #5517 onwards -  LOTAC 05458 (conical bush)

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