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LotusFella

labour time for b service.

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20 minutes ago, sailorbob said:

You would be better off fitting the LOTAC polybushes. Be aware that 1998 was a changeover year for the front lower wishbone design.

Front lower wishbone, trailing - LOTAC 05454

Front lower wishbone, leading, pre chassis #5517 - LOTAC 05459 (parallel bush)

Front lower wishbone, trailing, chassis #5517 onwards -  LOTAC 05458 (conical bush)

Yes thx. I thought mine are the parallel bush but chassis is  WHC15634 so conical?

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Maybe the last ones were wrong and his contributed to collapse?

having a serious Devils advocate time here...

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Yes, #WHC15634 should use the conical bushes (unless the wishbones have been changed at some point for earlier ones .........).

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Let me know if you'd like them and I'll check current stock levels :)

 

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Before you bought the car you said it had been off the road since 2015 and had been serviced by an Alfa specialist. Was it them who did the 'recent' suspension and bushes and were they done before it went off the road.

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I’d concentrate your energies on fixing the current issues rather than worrying about the issues of the past which you can’t solve.

 

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17 minutes ago, LotuStuart said:

And do you have the receipt in the s/h which might show the bush part numbers and material?

Unfortunately not. How can which ones i need 

34 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Let me know if you'd like them and I'll check current stock levels :)

 

I do want them but unsure which I need. Is they any other way to tell? Perhaps part number on wishbones?

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Take the other ones out and see I if they fit properly??  I'm afraid I dontto know how to tell the difference. 

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43 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I’d concentrate your energies on fixing the current issues rather than worrying about the issues of the past which you can’t solve.

 

Not sure I would agree with that considering all the accusations being made against the dealer

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Are there other folks experiencing issues ??

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With the bushes or the garage

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I have had a look around the bush and wishbone and there is no evidence of the bolts being tampered with.  So I guess I have no choice but to accept their explanation however unlikely I think it could be.

So I need to get the bushes done so @Bibs They should be the conical bushes so if I order those I have 2 question please.

1.  Are the 2 type of bushes obviously different in terms of fitment.  i.e they would not fit if by some freak on nature that both wishbones were replaced with earlier ones?

2 If they were wrong could I get them change to the ones?

Video of the wishbone close up hopefully this will help. https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3cr75zmvmwoxwd/IMG_4447.MOV?dl=0

Thx

Chris

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Willy-nilly I'd not leave my car with them anyway, as I find taking a pfoto of seriously deformed and torn bushes and mentioning them to you, is not enough in my Humble view. A workshop have to have the customers confidence in any Work they do. And in this particular case, as a workshop I'd say please don't drive the car in it's current state, as they can fall out (as they say), leaving the car with serious driving defects.

You know, these things can lead to a serious accident. Imagine a hard braking Down and avoidance-sequence. Then the car could potentially leave it's intended course and even take a spin, potentially hitting something on it's way.

 A Lotus Esprit V8 is not a normal small slow car, but a very fast one. Every part should be in order to drive it safely. As a dealer (which I am not) I would insist very thoroughly and very clearly that they HAD to be changed before taking the car on the road. I mean mandatory. As is, the car is unsafe. Whether they did just that or not, I don't know from your and their description. A car with those defect bushes would never pass inspection here in Denmark. Plates would be taken off (in which case you are not allowed to use it even for one second on a public road), or it would have to be towed to a workshop for repair.

I think the extreme deformation is partially due to wrong installation and partially due to being split versions, not one-piece design. I have no factual knowledge on this, but just a hunch. Get the Lotac ones. Eventually I think it's PNM who have the remaining ones, if Bibs are out. I would also inspect the car for any similar bushes and swap them out.

I am happy that you did not have an accident on the way to or from that b-service.

Just my two-pence.

Kind regards,

jacques

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Hi Jacques

i don't think that's fair. The garage took photos of bushes that were on the way out, and the owner said he knew they needed doing but thought-not yet-

so both the owner/driver AND the garage were aware the bushes were not perfect but considered them drive able on. 

Given that after a closer inspection Chris can't find any marking to suggest the bushes were gouged out, , and clearly that bolt great has not been removed in the last year, and knowing the car sat for three years, I'm leaning towards that 45 mile trip home being the straw that broke the camels back and once the bush started to disintegrate it got worse quickly (as things do). 

Certainly I have more suspicions about the yellow bush being poorly fitted/the wrong one/just rotting slowly on the car for x years than I do about the garage. 

If I was going to rip Chris off, I'd remove he whole bush and THEN show him the pictures "you can't drive in that mate" and not "looks a bit crap but will probably last a bit"

again, just my two penneth 

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Ive just watched both videos in full.

the bushes looked utterly shagged before - and had gone or fallen out on the second video. The bushes are bloody dangerous as they are. And yes it could well be the reason for the pulling to one side.

i would also recommend looking at refurbishment of that radiator. The bottom of that didn’t look In any way nice

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You can see the parallel and the conical bushes in this post.

The bore of the leading bush tube will let you know which wishbone you have (most likely the later version).

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Chris, you are without doubt the worst cameraman I've ever come across, which makes it difficult to see from your video which bushes you need. With your bushing material removed it should be easy to see the shape of the sleeve, for which the two peice conical bushes will be clearly conical in shape to accept them, the earlier standard one peice bushes are just pressed through a straight tube.

As Barry noticed your radiator looks shagged and is weeping, looks like another job for the list, I've recently had mine recored to larger capacity to help the cooling issues, well worth doing while it's out!!!

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I agree, it lies on the shoulders of both parties to have the car repaired before being driven.

I still stand by my Words though.

But maybe that's just me ;)

I think it's most important that this was discovered and asked about, before something nasty could have happened. I am more concerned about security.

Kind regards,

Jacques

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here's the other video I was trying to look at the bolts to see if they've been.  you only need to watch about half way.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gvwfwqd2td7wme/IMG_4446.MOV?dl=0

They look like the parallel ones but they should not be.  I think I'll have to take the wishbones off to be sure.

 

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2 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Did they show you the photos of the bushes prior to you leaving the garage?

no and that's my concern.  The photos are timed first thing not last thing and as soon as I brake at the entrance of their garage I sensed it pulling and the pedal going much further down before biting than before.  As I said before I knew the bushes looked to require attention but didn't think they were so bad to get them done by the garage was I going to do them.  

I had driven the car home from the grays in Essex where I bought the car some 80 miles plus probably another 30-40 over the initial weekend.

Anyway I'm just going to do the bushes and move on.  

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Is It Just the filming or are those front bushes yellow...  If so they are the cheap spurious crap polly alternatives people fit. So many do this and have same issues..   You also have other issues in that area .. your whole lower wishbone has slipped back on the main bush as well , this shows the problem has been around a while , As a result your GEO will be all over the show ..  I would be questioning the whole set up.. if one is bad what are the rest like ... I would suggest a full suspension rebuild with Lotac along with full Geo by someone who knows what they are doing.... Not cheap but at lot cheaper than a cheap job will eventually cost you.   The Esprit's are transformed when set up correct , but you will be surprised how few out there are fully set up to correct spec..  Mainly due to the cost, lack of equipment and first hand knowledge in doing the work..  ..   With the correct skill sets you can fit the bushing yourself,  don't forget to buy all the new nuts and bolts at the same time . but you will still need to have it set up on a hunter machine with corner balance facility , other wise its just a half done job.....   When you have it all done correct it may well expose other short falls like spring comparability and damper wear..  So be prepared to change those as well , other wise you will not get the balance in spec.. ( unless you have adjustable coil  overs to compensate).                                                                                                                                                                                                   Just my input.. 

 

  

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Not sure we are hearing the full story here, surely the selling garage has some responsibility 

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17 minutes ago, CHANGES said:

Is It Just the filming or are those front bushes yellow...  If so they are the cheap spurious crap polly alternatives people fit. So many do this and have same issues..   You also have other issues in that area .. your whole lower wishbone has slipped back on the main bush as well , this shows the problem has been around a while , As a result your GEO will be all over the show ..  I would be questioning the whole set up.. if one is bad what are the rest like ... I would suggest a full suspension rebuild with Lotac along with full Geo by someone who knows what they are doing.... Not cheap but at lot cheaper than a cheap job will eventually cost you.   The Esprit's are transformed when set up correct , but you will be surprised how few out there are fully set up to correct spec..  Mainly due to the cost, lack of equipment and first hand knowledge in doing the work..  ..   With the correct skill sets you can fit the bushing yourself,  don't forget to buy all the new nuts and bolts at the same time . but you will still need to have it set up on a hunter machine with corner balance facility , other wise its just a half done job.....   When you have it all done correct it may well expose other short falls like spring comparability and damper wear..  So be prepared to change those as well , other wise you will not get the balance in spec.. ( unless you have adjustable coil  overs to compensate).                                                                                                                                                                                                   Just my input.. 

 

  

Yes yellow bushes.  the wishbone has slipped back because the material to hold them in place is no longer there. Are the bushes difficult to get in?

17 minutes ago, pete said:

Not sure we are hearing the full story here, surely the selling garage has some responsibility 

I have replied back but them having those pictures even if they were at the start of the work NOT the end makes it difficult for me to force any liability on them. Will keep all posted with the result.

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