Busted rear lower arm bush

[hspeck]

I replaced all the 8 rear bushes in my car, but the passenger side lower arm bush was busted.

I have attached the photos for reference. the first 3 are for the one that is busted and the other 3 are for the one on the right (driver) side.

We are trying to figure out how it can be busted as it is now. And what adjustment may affect this particular bush?

All is well with the right side.

We are wondering if the lower arm is bend?

Also, are the left and right lower arm identical?

The last picture is the bush that we are using now.

Appreciate any thoughts on this.

Thanks.

 

[Jacques]

Sorry to say this, and I may very well be wrong, but lately we've seen Pictures of various bushes gone bad, all being non-Lotus poly bushes and all being split ones. I am not saying this to dish any non-Lotus component, but I think it's an indicator of something going on with those specific parts.

As far as I remember, the split bushings are not very smart in design (apart from installation), as the bushings are supposed to be pretensioned a bit when installed and car is weight loaded to set ride height and then finally fasten the bolts and nuts. That's what I did anyway.

More over, I think some of those split bushings are in fact harder than the Lotac ones, and, this is a speculation, may be too hard to Work in an environment where they are under load of twisting, as can be seen in the case of the rear arms, once installed. I suspect they may be too hard and crush. Or it could be a case of an unfortunate installation. Can't really say.

So, my take on  the matter is take off the offending lower arm, and in fact any other component connected with a non-Lotus bushing (split version, what ever), and measure it to be certain that it's not bent. Then replace with Lotac Lotus bushings. And lubricate them.

Now off to seek cover behind the sofa in the garage.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[hspeck]

my workshop was saying something similar, that the bushes were probably too hard, although he is not sure if the original Lotus parts will be better off...

We could not be very sure also because that is the only 1 that was crushed. We had 10 in total including the 2 at the front

I will take your advice and purchase the originals all around ....

so does it mean that the cause is unlikely to be and bend arms or improperly installed, more because of the bushes?

[Jacques]

Cannot say that for sure. It's my guestimate. But we've seen this develop before. The Lous made Lotac programme bushings are a totally different material. They are slightly harder than original Lotus bushings, and they keep that way. They don't Loose their shore value. So does anything polyurethane and your purple (and Black and yellow) ones as well. But seriously, I think they can very well destroy themselves because of hardness and they can turn and wander around. Not what you want. I' bite the bullet and swap them all.

What brand are those bushings? I've driven around for 13 years in one of my other cars with a complete set of polyurethane bushings from Powerflex and they have been working perfectly. But they may be different and they also are NOT split versions. Likewise on my Corrado which also uses Powerflex bushings. Remember to use coppergrease when you install them or they may destroy or make squealing noises.

You can read in the Lotus service manual how to install the arms (after having changed bushings or anything else requireing the arms to come off. The procedure is also repeated on here in various threads. The non-Lotus bushings in plly which is split in two amd have aseperate stainless centerpin that you slide in, cannot do this. May slightly  affect driving abilities ultimately, apart from they don't last very long, which is quite counter productive to what they were made for in the first place.

I am sure someone else will chime in with a propper explanation.

Of course an article can be badly installed, e.g. twisted, being stuck, crushed or something else. That's hard to tell in your case. I'd still be measuring those arms to endure they are straight. More so when we thing of the badly serviced roads we're driving on.

Kind regards,

jacques

[superdavelotus]

When you have installed your new bushes, did you tighten all the nuts and bolts when the car was jacked up in the air? If so, it's wrong, you are supposed to tighten it up with weight of car on ground. The lower link is a torsion bar and is twisted by nature. If you tighten everything up in the air then lower the car down, it will have so much more twist and stress on the bushes and everything else on suspension components.

This is just what picked up when doing mine last month, I am no expert.

Regards,

 

David

PS, Are you sure you've mounted it right and with all the correct snubber washers and other washers in correct locations?

I see that you've installed the top link wrong. The big washer (snubber washer) shouldn't be at the end of the bolt, it should be where the bush is. Look at you Lotus Parts list for correct location.

[hspeck]

1 hour ago, Jacques said:

Cannot say that for sure. It's my guestimate. But we've seen this develop before. The Lous made Lotac programme bushings are a totally different material. They are slightly harder than original Lotus bushings, and they keep that way. They don't Loose their shore value. So does anything polyurethane and your purple (and Black and yellow) ones as well. But seriously, I think they can very well destroy themselves because of hardness and they can turn and wander around. Not what you want. I' bite the bullet and swap them all.

What brand are those bushings? I've driven around for 13 years in one of my other cars with a complete set of polyurethane bushings from Powerflex and they have been working perfectly. But they may be different and they also are NOT split versions. Likewise on my Corrado which also uses Powerflex bushings. Remember to use coppergrease when you install them or they may destroy or make squealing noises.

You can read in the Lotus service manual how to install the arms (after having changed bushings or anything else requireing the arms to come off. The procedure is also repeated on here in various threads. The non-Lotus bushings in plly which is split in two amd have aseperate stainless centerpin that you slide in, cannot do this. May slightly  affect driving abilities ultimately, apart from they don't last very long, which is quite counter productive to what they were made for in the first place.

I am sure someone else will chime in with a propper explanation.

Of course an article can be badly installed, e.g. twisted, being stuck, crushed or something else. That's hard to tell in your case. I'd still be measuring those arms to endure they are straight. More so when we thing of the badly serviced roads we're driving on.

Kind regards,

jacques

Got them from sj sportscars, not sure what brand are those.

I think i will need to go through with the workshop again to be sure they have everything in the correct place begore they put in the new bushes.

Thanks. 

 

[hspeck]

15 minutes ago, superdavelotus said:

When you have installed your new bushes, did you tighten all the nuts and bolts when the car was jacked up in the air? If so, it's wrong, you are supposed to tighten it up with weight of car on ground. The lower link is a torsion bar and is twisted by nature. If you tighten everything up in the air then lower the car down, it will have so much more twist and stress on the bushes and everything else on suspension components.

This is just what picked up when doing mine last month, I am no expert.

Regards,

 

David

PS, Are you sure you've mounted it right and with all the correct snubber washers and other washers in correct locations?

I see that you've installed the top link wrong. The big washer (snubber washer) shouldn't be at the end of the bolt, it should be where the bush is. Look at you Lotus Parts list for correct location.

Yes, everything was tightened with the car on the hoist... So i should only tighten it after the car is on the ground? Won't that be very inaccessible?

And you are referring to the washer circled in the photo?

I guess i will need to run through the positions of the various washers with the mechanic when he next install the bushes...

Thanks

 

[Barrykearley]

Tighten up on a four post lift.

[hspeck]

6 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Tighten up on a four post lift.

Right! Thanks for the reminder.

Will have to do it at the alignment shop then.

[superdavelotus]

1 hour ago, hspeck said:

Yes, everything was tightened with the car on the hoist... So i should only tighten it after the car is on the ground? Won't that be very inaccessible?

And you are referring to the washer circled in the photo?

I guess i will need to run through the positions of the various washers with the mechanic when he next install the bushes...

Thanks

 

Yes that's the one, it needs to be between other side of bush and arm.

[Jacques]

Or you can do it yourself if you have access to a 4 post lift or a pit. Read Lotus Service Notes and follow instructions to torque, and the load of the car with two people in it and ½ tank.

Looking at your Picture, there's is no barrier between the hub and the bush. Now, driving the car and as the suspension moves, it will crush the bush. So go through this all over the car.

Btw. make sure while you are there, that the nuts on the upper adjustable arm is tightened. They can sometimes become loose.

Do you have Lotus Service Notes for your model?

Kind regards,

Jacques

[Smithy111]

Its easy to tighten at ride heigh, I just put axel stands under the ends of the arm and dropped the weight onto them as though it was sitting on its wheels.

p.s. those are the superflex ones that sj do, i have fitted the same except i have the black ones

[Barrykearley]

Don’t put an axle stand anywhere near those hubs - don’t under estimate the costs of those. Use a concrete block to drop the car onto if you need some extra wriggle room on the ground at home

[Steve V8]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Use a concrete block to drop the car onto if you need some extra wriggle room on the ground at home

Better still use four, one under each wheel, if you have a beer belly you may need eight...if you've bought Lotac bushes you won't be able to afford beer or food, so just wait a few days and you'll be plenty skinny enough to just slide under the car with it on the ground. 

The benefit of Lotus rubber or Lotac poly bushes, the bushing material is bonded to the sleeve, when tightened the bush itself acts as a spring which is why the car needs to be on the ground and at the correct or desired ride height before these additional springs are locked into position. 

The split bushes you have are unbonded, therfore the bushing material is free to twist around the sleeve giving no spring effect and incorrect damping, you may as well tighten these with the car in the air, as they will twist to where they want to go anyway.

[hspeck]

13 hours ago, superdavelotus said:

Yes that's the one, it needs to be between other side of bush and arm.

I took a look at the parts diagram, there are 2 snubber washers, one on each side.

There are actually 2, one on each side if you look carefully. I have attached the right side for reference.

The only mistake I see is the bolt is inserted in the wrong direction. The nut should be on the out side instead of the inner side. I am not sure if that is really critical ...

Please correct me if I am wrong as I have not had the time to go to the shop yet ...

Thanks.

13 hours ago, Jacques said:

Or you can do it yourself if you have access to a 4 post lift or a pit. Read Lotus Service Notes and follow instructions to torque, and the load of the car with two people in it and ½ tank.

Looking at your Picture, there's is no barrier between the hub and the bush. Now, driving the car and as the suspension moves, it will crush the bush. So go through this all over the car.

Btw. make sure while you are there, that the nuts on the upper adjustable arm is tightened. They can sometimes become loose.

Do you have Lotus Service Notes for your model?

Kind regards,

Jacques

Yes, I do have the service notes.

there should be a snubber washer between the hub and the bush, I think the size is smaller than the one on the outside so it is not very visible.

nevertheless I will check when I pop over to the shop. This time armed with my service notes!!

Thanks!

[hspeck]

9 hours ago, Smithy111 said:

Its easy to tighten at ride heigh, I just put axel stands under the ends of the arm and dropped the weight onto them as though it was sitting on its wheels.

p.s. those are the superflex ones that sj do, i have fitted the same except i have the black ones

 

9 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Don’t put an axle stand anywhere near those hubs - don’t under estimate the costs of those. Use a concrete block to drop the car onto if you need some extra wriggle room on the ground at home

Thanks guys... to conclude, so it is utterly important that the car be grounded one way or another, with the correct weight (175kg with half tank of fuel) before we tighten the bolts and nuts ... I assume this also applies to the ever important car height adjustment (170mm) ...

Can I assume the same when doing the adjustments for the camber, toes etc?? 

I think I might have a hard time convincing the shop these are all necessary, as it is not the norm in our country ... hahah .. but I will need to make sure it is done all proper ...

Cheers

6 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

Better still use four, one under each wheel, if you have a beer belly you may need eight...if you've bought Lotac bushes you won't be able to afford beer or food, so just wait a few days and you'll be plenty skinny enough to just slide under the car with it on the ground. 

The benefit of Lotus rubber or Lotac poly bushes, the bushing material is bonded to the sleeve, when tightened the bush itself acts as a spring which is why the car needs to be on the ground and at the correct or desired ride height before these additional springs are locked into position. 

The split bushes you have are unbonded, therfore the bushing material is free to twist around the sleeve giving no spring effect and incorrect damping, you may as well tighten these with the car in the air, as they will twist to where they want to go anyway.

I think these are the ones you referring to??

http://www.pnmparts.co.uk/esprit/esprit-na-turbo-se-88-92/esprit-na-turbo-se-88-92-d/lotus-rear-bush-kit-poly-05448

PNM does have a more affordable alternative ...

[superdavelotus]

I bought my bushes from PNM Engineering or PNM Parts

[hspeck]

I just did too ... and they are arriving this Monday thanks to UPS Express!!  

[Jacques]

Think washers on the outside bush upper rear arm are the same on each side of the bush.

Anyway, gho through it all. And yes, those red Lotac ones are the ones. Plus all the rest for the rest of the car.

Speaking if which, Your SE have a thicker front anti roll bar than most Esprits, but if you want to up that a bit, SJ so sell purple poly bushes for that which is harder than stock. I mean the two middle ones. The outer ones are also delivered from Lotac I think. The purple are meant to be on a Sport350 afaik, but don't hang me for it.

If you are tired of deep rolling into corners, these will help a bit. To counteract this mod, to avoid extra understeer, you may play a little with airpressure in the tires. These days I run 2,2 bar in the rear, but that is on V8 Wheels, which are bigger but lower sidewall.

Kind regards,

jacques

[Smithy111]

12 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Don’t put an axle stand anywhere near those hubs - don’t under estimate the costs of those. Use a concrete block to drop the car onto if you need some extra wriggle room on the ground at home

I haven’t done my rear yet just all the front. Are the alloy uprights on the rear particularly weak?? I would put a piece of wood across the top but they carry the weight of that corner normally?

[Barrykearley]

They are obsolete and when available £1000. New ones in billet ally are available but even more.

seriously - just dont

[hspeck]

4 hours ago, Jacques said:

Think washers on the outside bush upper rear arm are the same on each side of the bush.

Anyway, gho through it all. And yes, those red Lotac ones are the ones. Plus all the rest for the rest of the car.

Speaking if which, Your SE have a thicker front anti roll bar than most Esprits, but if you want to up that a bit, SJ so sell purple poly bushes for that which is harder than stock. I mean the two middle ones. The outer ones are also delivered from Lotac I think. The purple are meant to be on a Sport350 afaik, but don't hang me for it.

If you are tired of deep rolling into corners, these will help a bit. To counteract this mod, to avoid extra understeer, you may play a little with airpressure in the tires. These days I run 2,2 bar in the rear, but that is on V8 Wheels, which are bigger but lower sidewall.

Kind regards,

jacques

Hmmm.. Mine is the X180 NA.. Not the SE

I do have SJ's purple poly bushes upfront. They are sitting well for the time being..

I am on the 350 mag wheels.. 

[Jacques]

Oh, I see that from the left side of your replies

Well, good luck on refreshing the parts.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[hspeck]

On 05/08/2018 at 08:00, Jacques said:

Oh, I see that from the left side of your replies

Well, good luck on refreshing the parts.

Kind regards,

Jacques

Thanks!

The bushes should be arriving tomorrow. Looking forward to getting them sorted!

 

[hspeck]

Need help!!

Is there a special tool required for inserting the LOTAC bushes??

If yes, where can I get them?