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Dear Geely, Here's a to do List, Love Lotus Owners

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if Geely set up another Lotus factory with more modern facilities and better road access, in another part of the country.


Margate Exotics.

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I just don't think Lotus is anywhere near that position yet. The blank cheque cars being remanufactured by those companies are replicas of cars worth millions. An Esprit or other old classic Lotus is worth what 50-60K? It's just not worth Lotus' while restoring them, let alone re-manufacturing them. There's just not enough value for the time-being. We are lucky to have an active independent after-market specialising in classic cars parts and restoration. We don't really need Lotus to invest in that as well.

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I wonder what happens in a few year's time when you own an Evora, if when you take it for a service, the garage says you that you need a new exhaust manifold which by the way, Lotus don't make any more and it cannot be repaired, so your car is knackered until you manage to find one?

That's the dilemma a lot of people here face, me included, and the more support Lotus provides to its past creations, the more cars will still be on the road in ears to come. And, as Andy says, not only is brand perception important, but there's definitely money to be made from parts supply to older vehicles.

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Margate Exotics.

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I would search around and find an exhaust specialist to fabricate one for me. Or trawl E-bay for a second-hand one. There's always a solution, without needing to turn to Lotus (who presumably didn't actually manufacture that part in the first place).

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44 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I just don't think Lotus is anywhere near that position yet. The blank cheque cars being remanufactured by those companies are replicas of cars worth millions. An Esprit or other old classic Lotus is worth what 50-60K? It's just not worth Lotus' while restoring them, let alone re-manufacturing them. There's just not enough value for the time-being. We are lucky to have an active independent after-market specialising in classic cars parts and restoration. We don't really need Lotus to invest in that as well.

Not at all. look at Porsche, arguably the closest to Lotus. They have a whole heritage section of their website with historic model information, MY differences etc.

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/classic/

Not all of these are £kkkkks  in cost. Totally agree with @Chillidoggy as I hope to keep my 410 sport for many years to come, especially if the alternative is a duracell bunny car.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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42 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Not at all. look at Porsche, arguably the closest to Lotus. They have a whole heritage section of their website with historic model information, MY differences etc.

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/classic/

Not all of these are £kkkkks  in cost. Totally agree with @Chillidoggy as I hope to keep my 410 sport for many years to come, especially if the alternative is a duracell bunny car.

Precisely. It's something that everyone here will face at some point, unless they can afford to keep buying new-ish cars, and indeed, I'd cite Esprit's already obsolete Delco Moraine brake system, and exhaust manifolds as cases in point.


Margate Exotics.

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Also, Lotus do not necessarily need to make the parts, nor stock them, the ideal would be for a "community" of parts manufacturers/suppliers to sign up and Lotus provide the gateway into them and technical (specifications, drawings etc.) support.

I guess that that could also be something that TLF could assist with. After all, if @Bibs has time to go on holiday to Portugal sipping cold beers then he obviously needs more to do!   :cheers:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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As far as I can tell, Geely’s money is going into new car development (halo car and SUVs) and the current line-up will just have to limp along until those car have been developed.  Where that leaves the current cars is the big question mark.  Will they continue to limp along until being replaced with something more up-market?  Honestly, that would not surprise me.

My guess is that the current cars will be the last of the “raw” Lotus cars.  They may have great value in the future on that basis and they may get a boost if Geely’s plan to take Lotus upmarket succeeds and the value of the current cars are carried up as a result.

I don’t see much added support for the current cars and I don’t see much room for them to improve absent significant development which does not appear to be in the offing.

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It would be a shame if Lotus effectively park the current model range while working on new car development. I think they could make inroads in improving QC across the existing range in the run up to new models and could def eek more life out of models like the Evora with the elusive convertible. I know the interior on the Evora is hardly old but if the materials and fit and finish were improved then Lotus would start to remove some of the long standing objections to ownership.

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I owned a Lotus Omega (LHD Lotus Carlton) for 4 or 5 years. From all the hysteria and scare stories you read from keyboard specialists on the likes of Pistonheads, you'd think that nothing was available if it went wrong. Nonsense. They only made 950 in total (both LHD & RHD) from 1990 - 1992. I wouldn't even have considered asking Lotus for any spare part for one of these. I was a member of Autobahnstormers (ABS) and I don't think anyone on there had given up hope of driving their car due to unavailability of spare parts. There was always a solution if someone was having problems and that solution was never Lotus Cars! Common issues would get solved with the help the club experts (eg. strengthened bell housings, uprated timing chains, replacement lambda sensors etc. etc.). In fact I've still got a pair of remanufactured wastegate actuators in my garage. I didn't need them, but someone on ABS had gone to all the bother of getting them made so I bought a set anyway, just in case.

I think if we own an old car, we can't expect the original manufacturer to keep on making stuff on the off chance. I mean if we did, there wouldn't be any BMC/BL/Rover Group cars on the roads today. Although that might not be a bad thing...

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I couldn't afford one but ref a halo model, I think it should be something of the ilk of McLaren's Senna / Brabham BT62 / Aston Valkyrie - the £1.5 billion should easily cover the development 😁. Not criticising JMG etc but the thing is, having a credible, charismatic, first tier engineering talent at or near the top who wanted to make a lasting impact at Lotus would really help - and on that score I am not sure who is actually available...

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The NSX is an engineering marvel that does things people mostly seem not to care about.  The car has no turbo lag, but modern turbo charged cars have very little turbo lag.  Not sure that eliminating turbo lag completely warranted an electric engine.  Similarly, true torque vectoring is neat, but again comes at the price of 2 electric motors.  All told, 3 electric motors plus the battery pack does result in something people do care about: weight (as in 3800 lbs).  Second, all this tech did not produce a car that really stands out from its competitors in terms of performance.  Third, from the inside, the car hardly appears to be a super car (looks kind of ordinary Honda/Acura).  Lastly, the car lacks drama.  No big engine sound, not particularly engaging car.  The i8 just makes no sense to me whatsoever.  Performance is lacking and If I wanted great mileage from a $150,000 car, I’d get a Tesla.

The NSX and i8 are mostly lessons in pitfalls to avoid in designing a halo car

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2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I owned a Lotus Omega (LHD Lotus Carlton) for 4 or 5 years. From all the hysteria and scare stories you read from keyboard specialists on the likes of Pistonheads, you'd think that nothing was available if it went wrong. Nonsense. They only made 950 in total (both LHD & RHD) from 1990 - 1992. I wouldn't even have considered asking Lotus for any spare part for one of these. I was a member of Autobahnstormers (ABS) and I don't think anyone on there had given up hope of driving their car due to unavailability of spare parts. There was always a solution if someone was having problems and that solution was never Lotus Cars! Common issues would get solved with the help the club experts (eg. strengthened bell housings, uprated timing chains, replacement lambda sensors etc. etc.). In fact I've still got a pair of remanufactured wastegate actuators in my garage. I didn't need them, but someone on ABS had gone to all the bother of getting them made so I bought a set anyway, just in case.

I think if we own an old car, we can't expect the original manufacturer to keep on making stuff on the off chance. I mean if we did, there wouldn't be any BMC/BL/Rover Group cars on the roads today. Although that might not be a bad thing...

But you have to admit all that finding bits and even with support from the forum (this one is very good in that respect) was a right ballache, when it needn’t have been? I’m no stranger to fixing old cars, and parts availability, and the perception of, can make all the difference to ownership levels. And public perception is a fickle thing, look at the old LOTUS acronyms.

As it happens, and as you mention Rover Group, I went out and bought an MGZT 190 about a month after Rover went tits up. Quite a few people thought I was mad, so did my wife, and I confess it was a gamble, but I kept it for about five years, and never had any issues with parts availability. I loved it, it was a very nice car indeed and I kicked myself for not digging a bit deeper and buying the V8 version the dealer had on the forecourt. But they made a lot of ZT’s, and as a result, spares were never a problem. Lotus on the other hand, made a lot less cars, and I can see this is likely to be an issue, not just for keeping them running, but also as has been said, the public brand perception.

Dunno whether it was bullshit, but someone told me that Ferrari can supply almost any part for any of their old models. Anyone know?


Margate Exotics.

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When a single indicator is 3 grand - it’s hardly surprising they are happy to make one

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Only here once

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On 09/08/2018 at 21:35, Likuid said:

also a minority owner in Mercedes

They're actually the biggest single shareholder in Daimler. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-23/china-s-geely-is-said-to-be-buying-9-billion-stake-in-daimler

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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I’ve only owned a 1991 Ferrari for 10 months, but when I have searched for the odd part on Eurospares nothing has been available new, so I don’t believe that Ferrari still offers everything. When you think about it dispassionately they’d be nuts to even consider that as a policy.

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I don’t believe that 100,000 total cars sold is sufficient to justify the manufacturer supplying parts to its previous cars and making a profit.  Porsche have sold over 1 million 911s alone and sell over 100,000 cars a year which gives them a large number of existing customers to sell parts to.  Lotus need to sell a lot more cars for Geely to get its 1.5 billion back and to do this they will expand into the luxury car market (as already stated by Geely) trading on the Lotus brand following the business model largely driven by VW with Porsche, Bugatti and Bentley but also followed by Fiat with Ferrari and Maserati.  VW has no real pedigree in racing and luxury, Fiat has no real pedigree in racing and luxury but by buying brands that have, they shortcut the decades it takes to build one and open up new markets.  

Lotus is a gateway into new markets for them which should hopefully safeguard Lotus’s future.

Porsche make decent but not great luxury cars for people who want an aspirational purchase but they also make some great sports cars and racing cars which gives the marque credibility and drives the aspirational purchases.  I expect Lotus to now do the same.  Epic sportscars, back into motorsports, and decent luxury cars where they make most of their profits.

Need a proper dealer network, need more reliable cars.  Without these, Lotus are never going to keep enough long term customers.

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5 minutes ago, Softlysoftlycatchymonkey said:

I don’t believe that 100,000 total cars sold is sufficient to justify the manufacturer supplying parts to its previous cars and making a profit.  Porsche have sold over 1 million 911s alone and sell over 100,000 cars a year which gives them a large number of existing customers to sell parts to.  

How very dare you to post here with logic and facts. Don't forget some romance and passion :wub:

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On 12/08/2018 at 22:35, Barrykearley said:

Would be great if you prioritise Gold FFM folks whom contribute both financially, in a tiny way, and engage on here over the freeloaders whom don’t when it comes to the 75th birthday bash 👍

FTFY 😛


I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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I'd love to see the new Esprit, make it a truly usable car but seriously special,  something along the lines of the McLaren Sports Series with a chunk of hybrid tech thrown in?  ;) 


Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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