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410 Sport Lithium battery dead

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So, left the Evora 410 Sport for two weeks in the garage thinking it was on "charge" but like a right numpty although I had connected the charger to the little Lithium Battery I must have forgotten to hit the switch on the wall socket.

Went to the car this morning to go for a drive and yup, dead as a door nail. Nadda. Nothing. No power at all.  Unlocked via the passenger door key and pulled the boot release.

Re checked the charger was connected and hit the wall switch.  Left the car charging for several hours and came back and the charger is showing "green" for a healthy battery. However, the car is still stone dead like it was shot through the heart with a bullet from a Colt.  Argh.

Any one got any suggestions or ideas?

Many thanks

Stupid.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

More importantly.... you didn’t drive it for two weeks!? Hand in your Lotus card please :lol:

 

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Currently Owned: 2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats.
Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400 'Hethel Edition' in Essex Blue, Red Leather, Red Calipers, Silver Forged Wheels
Previously Owned: 2010 Lotus Evora NA in Solar Yellow, Sports Pack, Tech Pack, "Heritage Edition" Recaro Seats
Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel

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Yup. My bad. Was away working and the only weekend back had a full on nasty head cold so took the VX out instead with the roof off to blow the snot away! It would have made a mess on the 410's Alcantara....


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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OK. Will do and thanks for the advice @Bruss


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Hi,

I think I read a thread recently related to an SRS error when you remove a lithium battery to charge it.  Unfortunately, Li-ion batteries can be tricky to charge after cell voltage collapse, they need a large charge current to re-polarise them. Perhaps the issue is that the charge current is to low to achieve this? When we’ve used 18650 cells at work, if we had a completely collapsed cell, we had to connect an equivalent cell in a charged state in reverse polarity for a short time to do this.  Is your battery showing any voltage at all?

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Great post! Hopefully that solves Andy’s issue. Certainly seems feasible.


Currently Owned: 2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats.
Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400 'Hethel Edition' in Essex Blue, Red Leather, Red Calipers, Silver Forged Wheels
Previously Owned: 2010 Lotus Evora NA in Solar Yellow, Sports Pack, Tech Pack, "Heritage Edition" Recaro Seats
Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel

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11 hours ago, lotus muncher said:

As your car has the lithium battery it will also have a voltage protection device located above the battery. no2 on the link bellow.

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?TBL=11415&MAK=1&MDL=40&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

Can you see a green light on the unit.??. if no green light is shown the unit has isolated the battery from the car hense the completely dead car.

If you feel along the unit you will feel a reset button. press it the unit will click and power to the car will be restored. the green light will illuminate.

http://vsic.lotuscars.com/system/files/documents/sn_mh_electrics_Evora_400.pdf  

page 63 explains in more detail. with page 65 showing the reset button on the voltage protection unit.

 

That's interesting. Is it to protect the battery from an overvoltage coming from the alternator?

 

 

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I would be tempted to remove the battery from the car before attempting a deep-sleep recharge of a Li-ion battery, unless you have a really smart charger. They can become unstable and catch fire (spectacularly) if reset incorrectly.

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2 weeks to discharge seems quick, I’ve left mine for at least 2 weeks at a time without plugging in and it’s started fine. I don’t lock the car as it’s secure in the garage so maybe less drain occurring. Otherwise following Byrons post seems best plan. Hope it’s sorted.


Black n gold

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I don't know the spec of the 410 lithium battery but 2 weeks powering the car systems sounds feasible. Re the safety risk, I imagine the battery is lifepo which does not have the same high fire risk as earlier lithium and lithium polymer batteries.

Re my question re battery manager, apparently it is to protect from under/overvoltage.

Doesanyone know of a supplier of such a system , other than this Lotus one?

 

 

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Thanks for your help @lotus muncher that indeed did the trick. Hit the reset button, green light popped on (can't believe I never noticed that light before) and the car re-energised and the alarm went off bursting my ear drums lol...

The charger has done a 12 hour test (flashing green light) to ensure the battery is OK and can hold the required charge and all is green and good.

On reading through the links you sent, it looks like the isolator cuts in when the battery voltage drops to 10 volts - so not drained / fully discharged at all. It's an inbuilt safety system to prevent long term problems.

One thing about this issue is that it seems to demonstrate that Lotus has thought through the installation, as opposed to just chucking a lightweight battery in and what we have is a properly engineered solution.

It has actually made me chuffed I bought a new Lotus. It might sound silly but I don't care that the indicator stalks or the electric mirror switch is off a 20 year old or whatever Ford. They work. I'm happy that Lotus raids the parts bins for something that is not really important as such as it means they are obviously spending the money where it matters, doing things properly that are critical.

Again, thanks everyone for the help. Hopefully if anyone else gets the problem they now have the solution.

 

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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It would be interesting to understand what extra protection Lotus have designed for.

Modern lifepo batteries are normally built with the protection system built in. It's one of the things I looked at before selecting and fitting one. I didn't like the idea of either being stuck overnight due to low voltage, or worse having a fire due to overvoltage while on the road.

Having said that I still carry a lightweight emergency start pack with me. :)

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The Elise/Exige manual does say (even for normal battery) that you should lock the car with key not central locking, if away for 2weeks or more.

 


Currently Owned: 2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats.
Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400 'Hethel Edition' in Essex Blue, Red Leather, Red Calipers, Silver Forged Wheels
Previously Owned: 2010 Lotus Evora NA in Solar Yellow, Sports Pack, Tech Pack, "Heritage Edition" Recaro Seats
Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel

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This happened to me, just removed one of the fuses on the top of the battery refitted it and all ok again there is a reset button on top of the battery, but apparently it's hard to find.

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Answering a few questions posed here.

The Battery and Voltage Protector are supplied by Super B of the Netherlands.  The battery is the model SB12V25P-SC while the independent O/U Voltage protector is model SB BDB-250 operating between operating between 11-14.0 V, with cutoffs at 10 & 15

 

Lotus diagram of cutoff has the LED and reset switch positions mislabeled.  Intact the push switch is flush while the LED is raised.

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9 hours ago, Julian73 said:

Lotus diagram of cutoff has the LED and reset switch positions mislabeled.  Intact the push switch is flush while the LED is raised.

I believe it is flush whilst it is in normal use, when "activated", i.e. it has cut in, it pops up and you then need to push it down to flush to operate. hope that makes sense. That's how I remember it working when i had to do it a few weeks ago.

image.png.1f56b3c0976dfd9b5bcd474f4b0a5ce8.png

 

 


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Lithium battery cells should never be discharged below approx 3 volts I think, and if they are, you need to recharge them VERY carefully, and very slowly until they get to about 3V/cell. Hence the circuit to isolate the battery if it does discharge. I found this out the hard way many years ago, nearly burnt our office down, and an exploding Lithium battery is not nice. I hate to think of what a car size battery could do if mismanaged. The one I destroyed was a small lithium polymer battery.

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1 minute ago, Clive59 said:

Lithium battery cells should never be discharged below approx 3 volts I think, and if they are, you need to recharge them VERY carefully, and very slowly until they get to about 3V/cell. Hence the circuit to isolate the battery if it does discharge. I found this out the hard way many years ago, nearly burnt our office down, and an exploding Lithium battery is not nice. I hate to think of what a car size battery could do if mismanaged. The one I destroyed was a small lithium polymer battery.

These are later, allegedly safer lifepo cells.

The cutoff device above protects against going less than 10 volts.

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Yes, the LiFePo are very good by comparison. Actually got a battery pack passed as an intrinsically safe device, and they come with a controller which monitors each cell for over and under voltage and balance of cells. Pretty sure the batteries were specified safe even if a nail was driven through it. Does the car battery have a fusible link to protect against short circuit? Short circuit current on lithium batteries is huge.

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On 26/08/2018 at 11:52, Bruss said:

Modern lifepo batteries are normally built with the protection system built in. It's one of the things I looked at before selecting and fitting one. I didn't like the idea of either being stuck overnight due to low voltage, or worse having a fire due to overvoltage while on the road

That's what I also thought and that's what was told when I bought a Super B for the Elise.

The thing worked a treat until I had kind of the same thing happening, left it without charge for a month and found a flat battery. No problem as it's a protected Lithium battery with all the automatic shut off circuitry built in etc.

Hooked it up to the charger which kept saying "What battery? There's no battery". Hooked it up to another charger which did get it back to life, kind of, but after charging with the proper CTEK for Lithium batteries it's now giving 14.2V .. that's a little too much.

Super B are just saying it's gone.. no warranty and all of a sudden they're talking about the need to have a special alternator regulator and only their chargers etc.

 

I guess that's the reason why Lotus uses that controller on the 410.

One thing is for sure... this is not quite a stable technology as yet. Battery companies promise the world in terms of intelligence of the batteries, but in reality that intelligence doesn't seem to exist..

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Sorry to hear that Yvo. You would have hoped super B would have been more helpful. I have fitted the extea controller so I will see how it performs. I do keep the battery on a lithium trickle charger though.

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Happened to me yesterday after I hadn’t driven the car for a couple of weeks. Car completely dead as a dodo.

Tried pressing the reset switch but nothing happened so I disconnected and then reinserted one of the 3 cables that were in the terminal block just next to the reset switch. This did the trick and I heard the click followed by the green light starting to flash. Weirdly the hazards lights were flashing so I’m guessing here’s the reason why I’ve got a problem. Don’t know how that happened! 😬😬😬 switched hazards off.

I then tried to start the car but sure enough, there is not enough juice in the battery. 
I connected up the trickle charge but after a couple of minutes the cut off device cuts out again and the green light stopped flashing/trickle charger  shows no battery connected.

repeated the steps above again ie disconnect and reinsert one of the 3 cables in the terminal. 

Couple of minutes later the green light eventually illuminates constantly and within 12 hours I’m showing battery fully charged and all good.

thought I’d post this in case it helps others.

👍
 

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If things get really bad you can take the battery out and charge it without interference from the protection circuit. The chargers Lotus supply are really good  and designed to safely save a discharged battery. You can also attach the crocodile clips direct to the battery terminals to bypass the circuit with the battery still in the car but it’s obviously safer to charge a really flat battery out of the car. The attached trickle charging plug only appears to work when the green light is on. Easiest thing is just to leave it on trickle charge when not in use for more than a few days. 👍

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