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Now "Happy Lotus Owner"... - Engine & Ancillaries/Gearbox - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Turbo911

Now "Happy Lotus Owner"...

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Guys I'm open to criticism but could do with some support, I recently purchased a Elise cup 250 from Central Lotus to add to my garage along with my V6 Exige I purchased again from CL, I bought the Elise to use as a track day toy,  so I purchased the car ran it in religiously and had it serviced at Silverstone with 923 miles on clock then I had fitted bigger disks Nitron 1 way shocks and a komotec throttle blipper had set up put on the car, And off I went to Donington for my first Elise trackday as soon as the car got up to temp ( 3-4 laps) it started jumping out of gear and I,m thinking oh no I've got one of the well know dodgy Elise gearboxes ,  I was there with my best buddy who has exactly the same upgrades on same car as we get a kick out of lapping around together in the same kit ( I was actually a quicker racer than him and beat him loads of times back in our racing days)   anyways I persevered and ended up doing  half a day holding the thing in gear, hard work driving one handed around donny, but this soon came to a end when I blew a CV joint boot on exhibition straight, I got the car home and on the Monday contacted the dealer who helped me arrange the AA to collect the car and return to Central Lotus, A few days later there tech Adam ( he's a good guy )called and said he had arranged a Lotus tech to visit and look at the car, It has now took over 21 days for lotus to comeback and reject the warranty claim for the gearbox as of yet I have no reason why, I'm presuming at this time due to the upgrades, Since I heard this today from CL I have tried and tried to call the warranty dept at Lotus Uk with no answer so I spoke with my solicitor who made it clear to reject the car, Emails sent to Cl & Lotus uk and I,m awaiting a reply, Also I have owned the car for around 10 weeks and its still showing on the .gov dvlc site as unregistered and untaxed even tho we have used it regularly until it broke, Lotus are aware of the gearboxes on certain Elises  not up to the task I know of other members on here that have had there boxes replaced under warranty with Lotus some of which have had to get sh***y with lotus to get them to do this, bottom line is LOTUS YOU KNOW THERE ARE ISSUES WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THESE BOXES SO BE FAIR AND  COUGH UP or will meet in court sooner or later !!!!!!!!!  

PS, To Lotus I had begin to make inquiries as i fancied adding a GT430 to my collection you can KMA now.....  

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Hmmm Does sound a sorry state of affairs. The cars are all track orientated to a certain degree so doesnt sound exactly fit for purpose.

Until you hear back from Lotus I dont think there is much to say? Sounds like the responce has been too long coming. Id br pressing for their responce as Im sure you are.

Hopefully this will get sorted out very soon.

 

buddsy

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Didn't know there had been problems with the gearboxes.

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I’ve had a few on my esprits 

Ps - on the Elise front - go onto the Toyota forums - there’s some very known issues

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23 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

Hmmm Does sound a sorry state of affairs. The cars are all track orientated to a certain degree so doesnt sound exactly fit for purpose.

Until you hear back from Lotus I dont think there is much to say? Sounds like the responce has been too long coming. Id br pressing for their responce as Im sure you are.

Hopefully this will get sorted out very soon.

 

buddsy

cheers

 

Just now, Barrykearley said:

I’ve had a few on my esprits 

Ps - on the Elise front - go onto the Toyota forums - there’s some very known issues

cheers

2 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I’ve had a few on my esprits 

Ps - on the Elise front - go onto the Toyota forums - there’s some very known issues

I know mate lotus know to thats whats got my back up..........

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They can all do it. Took Porsche long enough to come clean on their various engine issues. JLR with the ingenium engines too.

Not excusing Lotus here. Just saying they are not alone.

The biggest thing that woukd have pissed me off is rejection of claim without reasons / justification.  I'd be raging about that as it really is shite service.

Good luck. Can' t believe I just said that to a forum member with that name tag!  ;)

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Sorry to hear about your problems and can well understand your reason for been pretty peed off.   

I only own the old cars so have never had a modern Lotus and would be very intrested in how Track days affect the factory warranty,  although i would see lotus cars and factory/dealer mods as a track orientated upgrade it would be nice to see what the factory/dealer would state on the warranty matter.  

Did you say to the dealership that it popped at Donny or on the road ? 

I hope you can get this issue sorted out soon without money been taken out of your pocket,  21 days is a hell of a wait also,  

 

 

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Yes told the dealership exactly what had happened I have not been deceptive in any shape or form I’m not that kind of person 

thanks for your comments as of yet still no communication from lotus 

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What is a komotec throttle blipper? An attachment to the pedal or something electronic you've added?

Gearbox issues over the years have usually been a failure of some sort, syncro's on 2nd and 3rd or a particular gear failing (3rd most common).

Jumping out of gear may just be down to cable adjustments, ie. its not fully throwing the gear home or unwanted tension on one of the cables so that when you hit a slight bump it wants to pull the gear back out.

You say the cv boot has blown, is this the inner one on the drivers side by chance? how long were the sessions on track? 40+ minutes? has it torn the boot or just popped off?

I dont know about the later cars but certainly the 2zz cars suffered repeated failure of the inner boot on the o/s after extended track sessions (the longer of the 2 drive shafts with the centre support bearing).

This was caused by the grease inside them heating up and expanding/inflating the inner rubber cv boot. Older cars where the rubber of the boot had gone off and hardened a little would tend to pop them off. Newer cars where the rubber was more supple would continue to inflate them until it hit the engine block where it would make contact and tear on a corner moulding which protrudes from it. The cure for this was to simply cut off and smooth this tab on the corner of the engine block so if the boot expanded it wouldn't make contact  with the sharp edge (picture below).

IMG_20180914_1121107.jpg

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I'm assuming they've rejected the gearbox warranty claim because you have fitted an after-market part which affects its use (I've no idea how the auto-blipper works). I don't think the track use would have anything to do with it. Regarding track use the handbook states "Lotus is pleased to maintain vehicle warranty coverage for any reasonable NON-COMPETITIVE use in this manner".

I wasn't aware of any "known" gearbox issues with the Elise. I've owned several over a lot of years and never had a problem.

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18 minutes ago, TheKevlarKid said:

What is a komotec throttle blipper? An attachment to the pedal or something electronic you've added?

Gearbox issues over the years have usually been a failure of some sort, syncro's on 2nd and 3rd or a particular gear failing (3rd most common).

Jumping out of gear may just be down to cable adjustments, ie. its not fully throwing the gear home or unwanted tension on one of the cables so that when you hit a slight bump it wants to pull the gear back out.

You say the cv boot has blown, is this the inner one on the drivers side by chance? how long were the sessions on track? 40+ minutes? has it torn the boot or just popped off?

I dont know about the later cars but certainly the 2zz cars suffered repeated failure of the inner boot on the o/s after extended track sessions (the longer of the 2 drive shafts with the centre support bearing).

This was caused by the grease inside them heating up and expanding/inflating the inner rubber cv boot. Older cars where the rubber of the boot had gone off and hardened a little would tend to pop them off. Newer cars where the rubber was more supple would continue to inflate them until it hit the engine block where it would make contact and tear on a corner moulding which protrudes from it. The cure for this was to simply cut off and smooth this tab on the corner of the engine block so if the boot expanded it wouldn't make contact  with the sharp edge (picture below).

IMG_20180914_1121107.jpg

The Komotec blipper is electronic it blips the throttle when on the brakes when you dip the clutch basically a electronic device that saves you having to heel & toe, it was the outside boot it split throwing hot grease all over the wheel and tyre we were only doing 10- 12 lap stints so no where near 40 mins, the s3 cars have a different issue to the s2 cars lotus have replaced gearbox’s due to this fault they have either just done another one or are doing it now the owner of that car had to reject his car to get lotus to replace his faulty box, we tried to adjust the cables at the track which made no difference wish now I had used the GoPro to show it happening ...

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5 minutes ago, Neal H said:

I'm assuming they've rejected the gearbox warranty claim because you have fitted an after-market part which affects its use (I've no idea how the auto-blipper works). I don't think the track use would have anything to do with it. Regarding track use the handbook states "Lotus is pleased to maintain vehicle warranty coverage for any reasonable NON-COMPETITIVE use in this manner".

I wasn't aware of any "known" gearbox issues with the Elise. I've owned several over a lot of years and never had a problem.

At this moment I can’t comment as I have only been told verbally by the dealership the warranty claim is going to be rejected, if I had removed the blipper ( which I wouldn’t) before returning the car  I’m confident from being in contact with others with the same issue I would still be in the same scenario ....

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I think if you can reasonably demonstrate that the blipper had no influence on the failure then Lotus have no grounds for rejecting the claim. Certainly the track use isn't grounds.

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Hmmm, sorry to say but adding anything like that is always going to potentially cause warranty issues should the need to claim against the drivetrain come up.

Blipping the throttle (either manually or electronically) is generally done to assist gear change which you're now having problems with.

Quite rightly lotus would have cause to say 'no, sorry, but you've fitted a non oem part and the trouble you're having is not our problem due to the fitting of said part's..'. I can't see how you can get annoyed, you've given them the perfect excuse to get out it it, regardless of whether they're to blame or not. You've fitted the parts and you're now having trouble in that dept. You're saying lotus are to blame but it could as easily be down to the parts you fitted. I don't think you'll have much ground to stand and fight In this case. Had it been left standard and you were blipping the throttle manually then yes, you would have every right to expect the warranty to cover it.

Sorry, I really don't mean to beat you up but again you fitted it before you had even done a trackday to actually see if it needed it or not. you've tried to fix a problem that most likely doesn't exist (or needed) and ended up with a bigger one from doing it. 

Sometimes we have to learn the hard way and accept a certain amount of responsibility and forethought from our own actions should such a situation arise.

 

Edited by TheKevlarKid

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I think every thing is speculation until Lotus replies.

But continuing to race when the car has developed a problem might be the issue? I mean physically holding the gear in place was never going to help make it better IMO.

 

buddsy

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imho, in this instance I think you'd have more of a chance claiming against komotec than lotus... whichever the case, it will cost you an awful lot to prove either way and still end up with a result you don't want to hear.

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40 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

I think every thing is speculation until Lotus replies.

But continuing to race when the car has developed a problem might be the issue? I mean physically holding the gear in place was never going to help make it better IMO.

 

buddsy

completely off topic but I'll never forget a passenger ride I had in a ford RS200 around Spa circuit where the owner was having to hold 4th gear in as he was going through eau rouge/radillion. not the place where you want to be having to do that shit with only one hand on the steering wheel!!

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3 hours ago, TheKevlarKid said:

Hmmm, sorry to say but adding anything like that is always going to potentially cause warranty issues should the need to claim against the drivetrain come up.

Blipping the throttle (either manually or electronically) is generally done to assist gear change which you're now having problems with.

Quite rightly lotus would have cause to say 'no, sorry, but you've fitted a non oem part and the trouble you're having is not our problem due to the fitting of said part's..'. I can't see how you can get annoyed, you've given them the perfect excuse to get out it it, regardless of whether they're to blame or not. You've fitted the parts and you're now having trouble in that dept. You're saying lotus are to blame but it could as easily be down to the parts you fitted. I don't think you'll have much ground to stand and fight In this case. Had it been left standard and you were blipping the throttle manually then yes, you would have every right to expect the warranty to cover it.

Sorry, I really don't mean to beat you up but again you fitted it before you had even done a trackday to actually see if it needed it or not. you've tried to fix a problem that most likely doesn't exist (or needed) and ended up with a bigger one from doing it. 

Sometimes we have to learn the hard way and accept a certain amount of responsibility and forethought from our own actions should such a situation arise.

 

Thanks aGain for your comments, if I didn't know who you are but I do I would think you worked for lotus warranty dept,

your a lotus nutter (that's meant to be a compliment) so you know your stuff and I,m sure you would know about the elise

gearbox problems, you state that I used the car on track not knowing if I needed a throttle blipper or not sorry but you are incorrect with your assumption I have driven lots of lotus models on track and I do need a blipper as I can't heel and toe anymore, so in this instance would changing down a gear without a throttle blip be a better result ? we both know the answer to this,  if your against me making a claim against lotus that's fair enough but not once have you mentioned there extremely poor responce to my issue,

 

Would it really matter if the gearbox is broken or not I couldn't use the car anyway as it still remains unregistered un taxed and with no valid road insurance,,,,

If Lotus continue to reject the claim even tho they know of the gearbox issues on other cars then the fight will go on,

cheers 

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I'm not trying to fight you over a warranty claim, Lotus is.

Your initial post stated you were open for criticism but also wanted support. Its not criticism as such I'm giving. I'm responding at your request entirely based on what you've told us and I can only go off the face value of that information.

It would be no different if you bought a Rolex watch, didn't like the hour hand on it and changed it out for a different one and then complained back to Rolex it doesn't keep the right time anymore... who's fault is it? Do you think Rolex would have any interest in it anymore or care? What they will do though is sell you a new hour hand  to fix it, they certainly won't give it you for free. Why would lotus be any different?

Same as if you bought an aftermarket shift light and then the rev counter on the main dash stopped working. The fact you've fitted non oem part that is directly connected to the item that has failed would null and void any warranty claim against that part regardless of whether it's at fault or not.

Lotus warrant their product (very well for my experience with them),  the emphasis of the warranty being on 'their product'. Y

You have openly admitted to them that you altered their product with a non-oem electronic device and in doing so you've basically null and void your warranty on any items that are directly connected to that device, in this case,  the gearbox... Its hardly a shock to me, I can't see why comes as such a shock to you

I'd also say you've null and void the engine warranty as this device is automatically revving the car outside of how lotus supplied it to you. So for instance , what if this device decides to accidentally over revthe engine on a downshift and threw all the bearings on the crank and/or knackered the oil pump taking the top end out, would you expect Lotus to cover this also?

You may well be right, and this device has had no effect on what would have happened anyway but the fact is it has been fitted and unless you have a 100% sure way of proving it wasn't at fault then you'll struggle to get anywhere with them if they decide to dig their heels in. Stating other people on the internet have had similar problems without the device isn't going to cut it I'm afraid...

I'm sorry to hear your woes, I truly am, but In this case I fear you're going have to just suck it up and chalk it down to experience and in future leave such mods til the car runs out of its warranty period in which case you be responsible for any costs involved regardless of what or how it's failed...

 

 

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I'm not complaining about critasisam, as for your Rolex watch comment I won't comment on that, your view and thoughts are important to me so thanks for you r input and help,

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Hmm, I wouldn't normally jump in to a technical debate like this however...

I do feel for the OP and the problems you are experiencing and I hope you get a resolution that does not impact negatively on your view of Lotus. What I will say is I never saw any provocation in Gav's posts. He is a top bloke and Lotus fan with way more knowledge of the current range than most, and has experience of most of the recent range on road and track. His advice/view is worth taking on board.

Anyway, as earlier, I hope you get it sorted. How is the TVS1900 preforming in your Exige btw, I think yours was at Hofmann's same time my Evora was converted :)

 

Oops, too slow...… :rolleyes:

Edited by tim_marra

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Cheers for the unnecessary 'big up' on my lotus front Tim but that has nothing at all to do with it.

And yes, the Rolex reference has everything to do with it. This would be absolutely no different with any other manufacturer of any other goods bought new that carry a warranty.

TV's, washing machines, cars, excavators, sewing machine's, take your pick.. If any of these items have been purposefully modified outside the manufacturers spec during the warranty period then expect that warranty to no longer apply should it fail in someway that 'could' be a result of the modified part in question. Common sense 1.1 surely?

 

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11 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

Hmm, I wouldn't normally jump in to a technical debate like this however...

I do feel for the OP and the problems you are experiencing and I hope you get a resolution that does not impact negatively on your view of Lotus. What I will say is I never saw any provocation in Gav's posts. He is a top bloke and Lotus fan with way more knowledge of the current range than most, and has experience of most of the recent range on road and track. His advice/view is worth taking on board.

Anyway, as earlier, I hope you get it sorted. How is the TVS1900 preforming in your Exige btw, I think yours was at Hofmann's same time my Evora was converted :)

 

Oops, too slow...… :rolleyes:

hi Tim,

my exige is sat in the garage I had some issues with the upgrade and randy at Hoffmans helped me out no end I can't use it at the moment as I put the hard top on my Elise as this was a rag top and it's been at the dealers since the fault so I got a exige with no roof I do enjoy opening the garage and looking at it tho !!!!!!!!!!

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Oh, sorry to hear that. Mine is performing great, I love it!! I'm sure you will too once it is sorted :)

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