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CR gearbox/linkage differences S1 to E 400/410/430? - Engine & Ancilliaries/Gearbox - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
pete757

CR gearbox/linkage differences S1 to E 400/410/430?

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Hi Guys,

Whenever I watch YouTube vids of 400/410/430's around tracks, one thing that strikes me very clearly is just how rapidly gears can be selected, with no 'baulking'.. Indeed the cars are often praised for their brilliant slick gearbox.

So, I note with some frustration, that even the 2014 onwards S1 Evora's with the later CR gearboxes needs some 'patience' between changes!...

Is the gearbox different between the CR S1's and the CR 400/401/430's... or is it just a massively improved linkage?

I am aware that Lotus improved the linkage in the later S1 cars, but I am pretty certain that MY14 onwards cars would have had that incorporated.

So... why if any, are there differences?

Cheers!   

 

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Yes, the gearbox is slightly different. 

If you compare the images on Deroure, one of the connections or linkages is in a different place. Roly at LMS (now defunct, obviously) told me which one but as it was now a few years ago, I can’t recall specifically which one. Either way, it isn’t practical to retrofit the 4X0 linkage to earlier cars, unfortunately. 

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Would that account for the 'slower' changing linkage on the later CR S1's?

I wonder if it would be practical to fit the entire later linkage/gearbox to an earlier car...?

BTW... whatever happened to LMS?

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18 minutes ago, pete757 said:

Would that account for the 'slower' changing linkage on the later CR S1's?

I wonder if it would be practical to fit the entire later linkage/gearbox to an earlier car...?

BTW... whatever happened to LMS?

No, not practical.

LMS chopped by the last boss of Lotus.

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Key to the best gearchange is to take all slack out of the system by ensuring that the outer cable is held fast where it can be. The inner cable can then move the mech without the outer cable also moving. Also ensure that the adjustment at the gearbox end is perfect and there is no sloppyness at the connecting bushes. 

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Main difference is use of true heim joints at cable ends rather than rubber inserts

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To clarify, is the CR gearbox the same internally, just the linkage that is different?

So are the standard joints terminated with rubber, rather than with rose joints? If so, it should be quite practical to modify the linkage to be fully rose jointed, in the same manner that was done to improve the Elise S1/S2 linkages, like here...

https://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/12/174/eliseparts-gear-linkage-kit/

Thoughts?

It would be great to get the same shift quality as is now clearly massively improved on the latest cars :>)

 

 

  

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No, it’s not practical to modify the earlier cars to fit the later gear linkages and/or system. 

It would be cheaper/easier to trade your car in for an E400. 

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Pete - it looks to me like they have done something to the synchromesh too as my g/b would grind if I tried to push it through the gate at anything more than a relaxed pace between first and second. I’ve improved things by changing the oil to redline MTF but I don’t see what else could be done to change that.

WRT the cable mech, mine has the updated cable set even though it’s an LE but there is some slack in the system. It’s clear that this could be improved by tightening the tolerances on the ball joints and possibly by fixing the cable shroud inside the car close to the gearstick. I don’t think the forward mechanism will allow it to be hard mounted at its end but there should be a way of improving its location somehow a little further back. I haven’t got around to attempting this yet but I’m aiming to once work calms down a bit...

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1 hour ago, Bravo73 said:

No, it’s not practical to modify the earlier cars to fit the later gear linkages and/or system. 

It would be cheaper/easier to trade your car in for an E400. 

If I could trade my car in against an E400 more cheaply than the cost of uprating my linkage, show me that E400 please!! 🤓

26 minutes ago, Ledlights said:

Pete - it looks to me like they have done something to the synchromesh too as my g/b would grind if I tried to push it through the gate at anything more than a relaxed pace between first and second.

Ditto! Hence my question!

 

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20 minutes ago, pete757 said:

If I could trade my car in against an E400 more cheaply than the cost of uprating my linkage, show me that E400 please!! 🤓

 

Nobody has done the work and, TBH, nobody really knows how it would be done. 

However, it would involve stripping the entire interior of the car, drilling the tub and also probably removing the engine and gearbox. The entire gearbox might even have to be replaced. There is also the ‘unknown, development’ factor so, if you could find someone willing to do the work, you are probably in ‘blank cheque’ territory. 

Lots of us have already enquired about this type of work, many times in the past. Lotus Motorsports themselves told us that it wasn’t realistically practical. 

So, please believe us when we tell you that it would be cheaper & easier for you to trade your car in for an E400. 

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3 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

Nobody has done the work and, TBH, nobody really knows how it would be done. 

However, it would involve stripping the entire interior of the car, drilling the tub and also probably removing the engine and gearbox. The entire gearbox might even have to be replaced. There is also the ‘unknown, development’ factor so, if you could find someone willing to do the work, you are probably in ‘blank cheque’ territory. 

Lots of us have already enquired about this type of work, many times in the past. Lotus Motorsports themselves told us that it wasn’t realistically practical. 

So, please believe us when we tell you that it would be cheaper & easier for you to trade your car in for an E400. 

I thought you were jesting... but that lot is nuts really!

I believe you, I believe you!! 😁

However... I am very happy with my S1, the slightly slower gearbox change is not a biggy at all :>) 👍

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Pete - have you tried using Redline MTF in your box? It didn’t yield any revelations but did improve things a bit, particularly the synchromesh speed when cold.

When I looked at the existing mech, there was slip in all the joints and I’ve been meaning to see if it could be improved using PTFE shims. The forward end of the cable is not secured either which leads to a small movement of the sheath along with the cable degrading things further. I’m pretty sure you couldn’t fix the very front of the sheath but it should be possible a short way back to reduce it. So, no change of mechanism but a couple of improvements should be possible to the existing one to improve feel and reduce slop.

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I wonder if Lotus changed something on the last few S1’s produced in early 2015 since production of the 400 would have  been tooled up by then.

I only mention this because I have had no problems with the gearchange on mine. On track the change is quick and the only slight problematic area I sometimes encounter is 5th to 6th, a change which isn’t used on track. The rest is so smooth & precise it does highlight the need to be more deliberate when changing 5th to 6th.

That’s not to say that I haven’t felt any difference in mine v 400s I have driven, but it is precise, quick and smooth

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Mine is a late 2014... the shift is actually pretty good but not as fast as I observe in the 400's etc!

 

 

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Interesting thread.  I find my S1 gearbox fine when just cruising but as soon as you start to push the car a bit the gearbox can get a bit frustrating especially baulking on downshifts.  I've been wondering if there is any proper permanent solution for this?  From the comments on this thread appears not really :(?

Has anyone tried an aftermarket shifter? Like this one?  https://www.inokinetic.com/lotus/evora-shiftr111?category=Transmission

 

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15 minutes ago, electro_boy said:

I've been wondering if there is any proper permanent solution for this?

Yes, get the latest cables available and have them adjusted properly. You won’t have any complaints with the change then. 

If you have further issues when things have really warmed up (ie on track), get a gearbox oil cooler fitted. 

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I have a low mileage car with the later cables but there’s still slack in the mech. The only way to improve things further would be to systematically go through all the joints to tighten tolerances.

I don’t think I’d complain about it exactly but it is a stretch to say it’s as good as it could be.

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1 hour ago, pete757 said:

Mine is a late 2014... the shift is actually pretty good but not as fast as I observe in the 400's etc!

 

 

Pete, I agree not quite as good as the more “bullet” type approach of the 400 but not bad enough (even on track) to cause me any concerns. It is always smooth & precise, both up & down the gearbox, with no baulking or hesitation other than 5th to 6th

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Would  anyone be able to recommend a dealer/independent who know how to adjust the cables/linkages etc to achieve this?

It's going to take someone who understands exactly what the 'issue' is and how to get it resolved within the limits that the linkage offers... ie: great attention to detail and getting it right, not just what 'the book says' is within limits/good enough! I am sure you know what I mean...

On my car, I have to slightly 'pause' between going up, from high RPM shift changes into the next gear, to make sure the next cog engages sweetly... curiously I have no issues going back down the gears!

Cheers :>)

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Depends on which side of Herts you live.  If on the west side then Hofmanns in Henley on Thames is not too far away.

I haven't used them specifically for gear cable adjustment but their attention to detail and quality is highly regarded by me and others on the forum, so its likely they'd do a good job.  Give them a call and have a chat with them.

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I dropped my car there for refurb of alloys, new tyres, a geometry change and to remove some of the slack in the handbrake.

Frustrating trips back and forth (1h30m drive there, 2h train back) when was told ready to pickup, work to refurb alloys wheels not complete, I was only told when I arrived necessitating another round-trip visit.

New tyres fitted, breaking one of the TPMS seals, flat tyre on collection, necessitating another round-trip visit.

Replaced TPMS sensor (at my cost) no longer displaying on dash, not checked when told ready for collection, at which point I'd had enough and didn't want to return the car to them, fortunately after 30 minutes the TPMS display on the dash sprang into life.

Later discovered something on the rear hubs / brakes is now dragging and making a loud scoring sound audible when the windows are down, removed rear wheels to inspect and discover discs not turning freely as drum brakes adjusted too closely to hubs, so I wind the adjuster back off a bit, sadly still the scoring sound is still present. I'm disappointed none of this was checked, and its now very unlikely I'll use them for future work.

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As far as TPMS... this is documented in the manual, it can take several miles/minutes to register with the control unit.
I sense you would have been miffed had a 30minute/30mile test drive taken place "why has the dealer driven my car for 30 mile test drive" or "why did they charge me 30mins labour for a test drive".

You asked for the handbrake slack to be removed... this is done by winding the handbrake pads against the drum, so a symptom of the cure?

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