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Road and Track, List EVORA 400/410/430 as a future classic - Evora Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
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Road and Track, List EVORA 400/410/430 as a future classic

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Everything's a "future classic" in this mad market, TBH.

Even Ford Escorts, ffs.

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On 09/10/2018 at 09:52, EGTE said:

Everything's a "future classic" in this mad market, TBH.

Even Ford Escorts, ffs.

Well, things might be a bit different for Lotus depending on Geely’s success. We are at a crossroads in terms of where our beloved brand is going.

If Lotus were to start competing against Porsche or Ferrari… old models demand/price would only explode.

Be that as it may, I will keep (driving) mine 😁

Edited by bloooh
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Good attitude. Me too.

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All Evora's, indeed all Lotuses, have ‘future classic’ potential but I’m with those who see the Evora S Sport Racer manual as the star amongst them. The “original” design - and already thin on the market.

The Lotus archivist confirms the total production number for the UK (including IPS models) as 53. I guess that the manual was the more popular, so say 30-35 manuals. (What’s that about “Only 60” Evora 430’s?).

Some changes Lotus made in moving to the 4xx series are desirable but, keen as I am on the light weight approach, I don’t see all as improvements. In stripping out weight - and, I imagine, production cost - Lotus also stripped out character. Rather important for classic status; performance alone is not enough IMO, except in rare special racers and suchlike. The glass rear hatch - replaced by some plastic strips on the 4xx - yes heavy, but class. And whoever said “being easier to enter and exit” added to classic status?

Rpm warning indicators are a natural feature for a performance car - eyes stay on the road. A real loss and a near crime that Lotus sacrificed them in the 4xx. Replacing them with a “gear change-up now for maximum economy” light, likely only of use to some minority of the most special-needs Evora “owners-but-not-drivers”. What better illustration of adding insult to injury?

And when our cars (Oh, didn’t I mention I have one?) become part of motoring history, that characterful interior, quirky if you like, the dash sweeping around to the doors, with its integrated set of control buttons grouped around the steering wheel, Sport Mode at one finger tip, glove box at another, with an engine temperature gauge (no, really, the 4xx doesn’t!), even three 12v sockets in good locations - and a cargo net!  So what if the mirror switch is awkward to get at - we will reminisce about such details.

The Evora S Sport Racer manual - they don’t make them any more - are even nearer a classic age than a 4xx.  Not so much a classic in the making as one already made!

Temp Evora S SR.jpg

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Hmm, Yes. Rarer and perhaps more desirable still if you have all the SR benefits but with a full leather interior :wub:

I would say that though, 'cause I have one :yes:. Oh, and did I mention a TVS1900 upgrade. Epic B-)

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...." Rpm warning indicators are a natural feature for a performance car - eyes stay on the road. A real loss and a near crime that Lotus sacrificed them in the 4xx. Replacing them with a “gear change-up now for maximum economy” light, likely only of use to some minority of the most special-needs Evora “owners-but-not-drivers”. What better illustration of adding insult to injury"...?

There are indeed a lot of minor changes that could be perceived as such... 

My observations... I think the 'purest' SR would be the N/A version :>) Just as the original except loaded!

I have found that the RPM shift lights, buried above the speedo, are not in the right place or bright enough to be of any 'on it' use. If you are staring at those then your eyes would not be in the right place, 'outside'. The after-market 'Shift-Eye' type lights are much brighter, more of them and can be located higher up in the drivers field of vision. You can also feel the power tailing off in the N/A once above 6,500 RPM. I guess however the 'S' is still pulling well... but then you get a soft RPM cut-out eh?

I have never used my 'boot' or rear power sockets. Great for a 4WD/Estate car, but not sure of any use in the boot of a sports car...

I love the full leather interior of the SR and others... great as a 'GT'. Also agree with the 'glass' tailgate in a GT. But the evolution into the CF tailgate is certainly good looking and of course much lighter. I like both options... perhaps the UK cars should offer the glass, as per the 400 as an option now.

I also love the new interior of the 4xx's! The quality is up there and personally I think 'Alcantara' suits the function more. Once again, lighter as well

Bottom line... they are all great cars... nothing is perfect of course. 

Coming from a history of Elise/Exige's, for me the Evora has been a perfect evolution that matches my evolving age!!! 

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Tim,  indeed several have mentioned that upgrading the supercharger makes a real difference. I have pondered that and not ruled it out. My concern though would be whether the transmission could handle the extra torque if it was used to any extent - and if not............  Then, noting that this thread is about classic status, originality counts for a great deal. (No problem if people hang on to the original kit.)

Pete, as a general response, I again note the basis of this thread is "classic status", rather whether something provided as part of the standard original is effective or optimised - or indeed a blooming nuisance, awkward to use, or useless!

Having said that, I find the standard shift lights in the speedo entirely effective without being looked at specifically. (On the S anyway, in the gears when they are useful, the second and third light follow the first pretty quickly!  I gather that racers starting on the front row do not focus specifically on the five lights, but are just acutely conscious of them. (Advice welcomed from any with practical experience there!)

I owned an early S1 NA for three years, and loved it. However I am very aware now of how the S differs.  Again, IMO this thread is not for that debate. I am making the case that the S1 S SR manual is a "natural classic" in many ways superior to most of the 4xx series, claimed by R&T. (Going further, I suggest that the only 4xx models in contention are those that can perhaps justify the "stripping out" by having the most extreme performance as a consequence - 430, Cup versions.)

The boot power socket - always live - is it not perfect for plugging in a battery charger/conditioner? It is for me.

Full leather - was it not standard on the SR? If not, yes it's needed for the "perfect classic". Note I am always speaking specifically of the one model, in its entirely original state, Union Flag badges and all.

Re the interior, and this is not being argumentative, what you or I may prefer about some aspect is not quite the point - the car is what it is. If you see the 4xx interior as being preferable as a classic, then fair enough. I don't though.

Finally, I hope readers of my initial post saw what I intended as slightly humorous hints of a tongue-in-cheek tone. Let's not get too hung up on the subject - only time will tell!

 

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I have a 'foot' in both camps! So I see both as great :>)

If I won the lottery, I would have one of each :>)

I wish Lotus had made a 'Cup' Evora... perhaps not the 430... leave that alone. Perhaps a 410 Cup... stripped out like the 410 Sport with the cup seats and not much else... There is a hard core DNA in some Lotus drivers that just 'need' the 'Exige' rawness... I cut my teeth on an S1 Exige... it was the best Lotus I have ever owned... because it suited my 'Exigerness' that those who now what I am talking about will 'get'!

So... older, wiser, less agile... the Evora is a perfect transition... get the Exige DNA into an Evora and I reckon many Exige owners will buy one. At the moment, I believe the '410 Sport' has come the closest... the 'Cup' CF seats, rear window delete, Li battery, forged alloys, lots of CF, no radio or A/C etc etc... now that is all Exige stuff!

I am SO glad to own an S1 SR... a great 'intro' to Evora ownership. 

As I said however, they are ALL great :>) 

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On 27/10/2018 at 23:25, mdavies said:

Rpm warning indicators are a natural feature for a performance car - eyes stay on the road. A real loss and a near crime that Lotus sacrificed them in the 4xx. Replacing them with a “gear change-up now for maximum economy” light, likely only of use to some minority of the most special-needs Evora “owners-but-not-drivers”. What better illustration of adding insult to injury?

I believe this was a legislative change Mel. 

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I bow to any specific knowledge you may have on the matter, Bibs, but I understand the legislation referred to the provision of a "change up now or you are being really naughty" light.  I doubt it stated that rpm indicator lights must be removed!

 Lotus, in a whole new design of instrumentation and interior, chose simply to drop rpm lights. If the Change Up light had to be in the speedo (?) and it could not be accommodated there whilst retaining the rpm lights (?), then rpm indicators could have been retained, perhaps located higher up, as Pete has suggested.

I have expressed myself quite strongly on this matter, and I stand by that. It is a fair reflection of how seriously I see the loss of something that so well expresses the character of a performance car.  Again, the loss of the water temperature gauge is also a serious deficiency for a performance car. For ordinary cars they are little more than a general health indicator, rarely looked at by most drivers in most circumstances. Not so in a performance car with, in the main, responsible and caring drivers who want both to manage the engine carefully and, when appropriate, to use it to its maximum capability. A single light provides considerably less information and is an inadequate replacement IMO. Entirely so regarding over-temperature!

Together these two downgrades are symbolic of the two-sided approach that Lotus adopted in moving from the S1 Evora to the 4xx series. Yes, hurrah for the lighter weight and greater power - let's not get into torque issues here - and the dynamic and performance improvements so enabled, but boo to the "cheapening" - figuratively if not literally, though I suspect so - and general loss of "character", both generally as a car, and specifically as a performance car.  (Note that I hold back from comment on whether "cheapening" is the right term in other respects!  Don't want to be here all night!) 

Yes, of course I applaud the positives of the 4xx, those I've already mentioned and the styling changes insofar as they reflect the Evora's performance nature, and, in the latest models, the aero improvements. But IMO Lotus got it badly wrong in revising - yes, cheapening - the instrumentation and so, in a practical use sense,  significantly detracted from its performance character.

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Rarity does not guarantee long term increased value and I say this from experience, but there is probably an algorithm that will get an approximate answer.

Ive owned a few cars that the Magazines said “future classic” buy now prices are set to rise.

yeh right.

Edited by au-yt

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I picked out the Sport 410 as something that will give the least depreciation from new and over the longer term should do OK. 25 made and replaced by something identical for 20k more than I paid.  

It's hard to pick out what will be a proper classic in the future.  Our standout sale this year was on a sport 160 S1 for mid 30s. This is a car you would struggle to shift 5 or 6 years ago. The car market is perhaps surprisingly fickle. A couple of higher price sales can get a bit of heat going and a few peaky sales but then the same car goes off the boil and prices drop. 

The GTE seems to do well although they aren't easy sellers. I think the 410 sport and 430s will be the ones to watch in a decade. The 430 is the special one but the 410 is just such good value for money being essentially the same car and also extremely low production numbers.  

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Based on history in the USA market,  Elises depreciated to around $30,000 and have not dropped much past that point.  I see Evora following a similar path.  They appear to depreciate to $40-$50k and then not much further (exception would be high mileage cars).  

The classic market generally does not favor Lotus.  I follow one auction site and the highly sought after cars are low mileage Ferraris, Lambos,  Audi R8s, and desireable Porsches.  That could change in the future, depending on what Lotus does, but this is what I see as the current situation

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