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Hi There

Thought I would start a topic where people can upload Geo settings and discuss how the car feels now

Objectives of Geo 

- Reduce understeer overall

- Specifically reduce turn in and mid corner understeer

- Make the car more pointy, and the car oversteer more

Before and after on the Geo

44749746294_83ca864a57_b.jpgthumbnail_IMG_3954 by mikeharper2, on Flickr

Results

- Car has less understeer overall, especially turn in oversteer 

- Weirdly the car actually feels more stable and balanced than before - where I wanted it to be a little more edgy and pointy

- The car seems to have a touch less feel at the straight ahead - which I can't really understand given the change in the geo. 

 

I think to get the car where I absolutely want it, I'm going to have to go down the coilover route. Worth the geo change though to get the turn in understeer better.

 

 

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I guess you maxed out the front camber at around -1.4 with standard parts

I had the oem front arms (and/or hubs) shaved by a lotus racing team to get even more camber at around -2.5 front as you cant reach that with standard parts or you would have to find some lotus motorsport parts.

I would say that the overall settings of your alignment are in the right direction for what you want but the increased rear camber at -2.4 especially without a similar front camber will make the rear end more grippy and stable wich depending on the conditions or what you want can be a good thing but not what should make your car oversteer or rotate more I think.

You slightly opened the front toe wich should probably make the turn in easier but the straight line self centering of the steering wheel lower so you should feel the steering wheel easier to turn in the curve and slower and less prone to come back at center.

If you would prefer a more direct seering feel you can still fine tune it to 0.0 toe at front or go back to a slight toe in.

Also you have more rear toe in wich should make the rear less oversteering in mid curve and curve exit but I think that on a road car it s right like that as less toe in could make it more twichy to control on the road.

I would leave the rear toe in at factory spec or very near and probably the 0.19 toe in is fine.

Always have a look at how your tyres get used (outside or inside) and you can fine tune camber accordingly.

If you don t plan to use more camber on the front as it requires mods you could try a little less camber maybe around -2.1 and 0.0 toe front or a slight toe in at 0.02

Of course take all I say as an opinion as I am not an expert at all and there are many many things that can make the geo af a car react differently from tyre pressures to suspensions to tyres width and rim offsets and those indications are just from what I felt from using quite aggressive camber settings on different track cars.

Track coilovers will make your handling much better depending on what stock suspension you have and might have more adjustablity but should not give you more front camber adjustablity on the lotus and won t replace well suited geo settings.

 

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That was a really interesting response thanks and some of the articulation is bang on. 

Yes couldn't' get more than the 1.4 with standard parts so debating camber arms at the moment. 

Your statement 

Quote

You slightly opened the front toe wich should probably make the turn in easier but the straight line self centering of the steering wheel lower so you should feel the steering wheel easier to turn in the curve and slower and less prone to come back at center.

Is very accurate - overall the car feels less 'nervy' as it doesn't want to return to centre as aggressively. It's definitely smoother, and possibly faster but not necessarily as exciting. 

The rear camber is a good shout - I think I'm going to get them to dial that back - until I find a way to get more camber at the front. No doubt it will be slower but I would like the car to be pointier and rotate more

Thanks again for the post 

 

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5 hours ago, Maxi_z said:

I guess you maxed out the front camber at around -1.4 with standard parts

I had the oem front arms (and/or hubs) shaved by a lotus racing team to get even more camber at around -2.5 front as you cant reach that with standard parts or you would have to find some lotus motorsport parts.

I would say that the overall settings of your alignment are in the right direction for what you want but the increased rear camber at -2.4 especially without a similar front camber will make the rear end more grippy and stable wich depending on the conditions or what you want can be a good thing but not what should make your car oversteer or rotate more I think.

You slightly opened the front toe wich should probably make the turn in easier but the straight line self centering of the steering wheel lower so you should feel the steering wheel easier to turn in the curve and slower and less prone to come back at center.

If you would prefer a more direct seering feel you can still fine tune it to 0.0 toe at front or go back to a slight toe in.

Also you have more rear toe in wich should make the rear less oversteering in mid curve and curve exit but I think that on a road car it s right like that as less toe in could make it more twichy to control on the road.

I would leave the rear toe in at factory spec or very near and probably the 0.19 toe in is fine.

Always have a look at how your tyres get used (outside or inside) and you can fine tune camber accordingly.

If you don t plan to use more camber on the front as it requires mods you could try a little less camber maybe around -2.1 and 0.0 toe front or a slight toe in at 0.02

Of course take all I say as an opinion as I am not an expert at all and there are many many things that can make the geo af a car react differently from tyre pressures to suspensions to tyres width and rim offsets and those indications are just from what I felt from using quite aggressive camber settings on different track cars.

Track coilovers will make your handling much better depending on what stock suspension you have and might have more adjustablity but should not give you more front camber adjustablity on the lotus and won t replace well suited geo settings.

 

Excellent response, very interesting and the first time I have really understood what each element of the geo achieves.

Thanks

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I wanted to buy camber arms from elise parts but they replied to me that their design would not allow any more camber than the standard ones.

Only solution I found was to shave some material from the standard parts.

Recently someone told me about Lotus Motorsport arms for the exige v6 but even if they were available I don t think they would be easy to find anymore.

 

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On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 08:58, Maxi_z said:

I wanted to buy camber arms from elise parts but they replied to me that their design would not allow any more camber than the standard ones.

Only solution I found was to shave some material from the standard parts.

Recently someone told me about Lotus Motorsport arms for the exige v6 but even if they were available I don t think they would be easy to find anymore.

 

Has anyone found any of the motorsport arms? Or could suggest a suitable place to get std machined? Many thanks

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3 hours ago, Lo2zz said:

Has anyone found any of the motorsport arms? Or could suggest a suitable place to get std machined? Many thanks

Leave the steering arms alone .

Machine the uprights, I took 5mm off mine

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10 hours ago, Seriouslylotus said:

Leave the steering arms alone .

Machine the uprights, I took 5mm off mine

I wrote to shave cambers or arms as I did not look precisely what they did on mine but I would agree on the shaving of the uprights

I think in uk you should be able to find some good Lotus tuner to get the work done

 

 

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3 hours ago, Lo2zz said:

Thanks ;) What Camber could you run with them shaved back?

Every mm the upright is shaved is good for an additional .25 degrees of camber.

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Could anyone be so kind as to help recommend some geo for my 380 Cup?

It is how it left the factory, so probably a bit all over the place. Ive a trackday coming up so want it to be as well setup as possible. I plan about 3 or 4 track days a year and the rest fast flowing smooth b road driving on some roads near me.

Being the cup it has the 2 way nitrons, 285 and 215 Cup 2 tyres and also the adjustable anti roll bars. Is it worth moving the roll bars from the middle settings up one to their stiffest (10% increase)? Worried about understeer, especially with the 285 rears, so maybe just the rear?

Thinking of getting the uprights machined for a bit of extra camber, worth doing you think?

I used to have an s1 with a quick rack, nitron trackday spec coilovers, uprated from roll bar, sperical bearing bushings on 340r geo I think it was. Loved how much fun that was.

👍🏼

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18 hours ago, Jack said:

Every mm the upright is shaved is good for an additional .25 degrees of camber.

That's great many thanks for the info

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Just had mine done and was surprised at the rather poor non-symmetrical tow and camber before hand. Its just over a year old and obviosuly not perfect from the factory. I still have the brackets for the brake sensor in there too. because warranty etc. I originally wanted them out, but happy they are there and anyway, the camber may need some fine tuning so wont be the last time its in for geo.

 

Only a short drive home so far and the car feels much better. Much more like my previous Lotus cars. Track day at the end of the month for first proper test.

 

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On 18/03/2019 at 23:54, k20Rob said:

Could anyone be so kind as to help recommend some geo for my 380 Cup?

It is how it left the factory, so probably a bit all over the place. Ive a trackday coming up so want it to be as well setup as possible. I plan about 3 or 4 track days a year and the rest fast flowing smooth b road driving on some roads near me.

Being the cup it has the 2 way nitrons, 285 and 215 Cup 2 tyres and also the adjustable anti roll bars. Is it worth moving the roll bars from the middle settings up one to their stiffest (10% increase)? Worried about understeer, especially with the 285 rears, so maybe just the rear?

Thinking of getting the uprights machined for a bit of extra camber, worth doing you think?

I used to have an s1 with a quick rack, nitron trackday spec coilovers, uprated from roll bar, sperical bearing bushings on 340r geo I think it was. Loved how much fun that was.

👍🏼

Have a look at my older post

I think that to machine the uprights is a nice thing especially on track but keep in mid that it might feel less stable with a lot of camber on uk roads so it s up to you to find a compromise you would like.

As it is you will probably not be able to get a lot of front camber so you should probably put as much as possible by using or removing shims and of course to get the left and right about the same.

You will probably get only -1.4 or -1.5 each wheel but if you would do the upright shaving you could start to be around -1.9 or -2.0 per wheel that should be already mostly track suited but not really aggressive for the road.

I would also use around 0.0 toe at front (a little toe in if you like the steering to be stiffer and self centering and better road straight line stability or very slight toe out if you like the steering to be less resistant to turn and less self centering but that could make the car follow the tarmac by itself a little more on the road)

I would keep the rear toe at oem suggested settings or very close (toe in)

rear camber depending on front camber but probably near standard settings -2.2 to -2.4 each wheel

I did not adjust the anti roll bars on the 380 cup but as you say if too stiff front bar you would get more understeer so it s really something you would have to adjust and compare on the same day and same track but as standard it feels about right maybe with good semi slick tyres and good tarmac put them on the stiffer setting could be faster but if standard tyres and or not so much grip medium or soft is usually better.

 

 

 

Edited by Maxi_z
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On 18/03/2019 at 15:54, k20Rob said:

Could anyone be so kind as to help recommend some geo for my 380 Cup?

It is how it left the factory, so probably a bit all over the place. Ive a trackday coming up so want it to be as well setup as possible. I plan about 3 or 4 track days a year and the rest fast flowing smooth b road driving on some roads near me.

Being the cup it has the 2 way nitrons, 285 and 215 Cup 2 tyres and also the adjustable anti roll bars. Is it worth moving the roll bars from the middle settings up one to their stiffest (10% increase)? Worried about understeer, especially with the 285 rears, so maybe just the rear?

Thinking of getting the uprights machined for a bit of extra camber, worth doing you think?

I used to have an s1 with a quick rack, nitron trackday spec coilovers, uprated from roll bar, sperical bearing bushings on 340r geo I think it was. Loved how much fun that was.

👍🏼

FWIW, here is the Lotus recommended CupR geo spec for use with R-comp (Pirelli Trofeo) tires ...... I'm running more toe-out up front and more front and rear negative camber running slicks.

V6- fact. alignment setttings.png

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Thanks for the replies.

My local lotus specialist Rapid Mechanical has replied saying they are not happy to machine the uprights and would look to machine the steering arms instead (as they do in elises).

Why is machining the uprights the approach that is recommended here over the steering arms? Is it best I try and find somewhere else and stick to the uprights approach?@Seriouslylotus

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4 hours ago, k20Rob said:

Thanks for the replies.

My local lotus specialist Rapid Mechanical has replied saying they are not happy to machine the uprights and would look to machine the steering arms instead (as they do in elises).

Why is machining the uprights the approach that is recommended here over the steering arms? Is it best I try and find somewhere else and stick to the uprights approach?@Seriouslylotus

Much much easier to do uprights.

I looked long and hard to do the arms, just not worth the hassle.

Uprights really easy to machine and Still plenty material left for the threads the bolts use

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@Seriouslylotus I spoke to essex autosport today and they also said to just do the steering arms, as that is what they normally do 🤷‍♂️ Sounds like steering arms it is then

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1 hour ago, k20Rob said:

@Seriouslylotus I spoke to essex autosport today and they also said to just do the steering arms, as that is what they normally do 🤷‍♂️ Sounds like steering arms it is then

Your car, your money.........

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The uprights look easy enough to do, not sure why they both say they prefer the arms approach. Oh well, they will both get the same result.

 

PS Im thinking of treating myself to a full set of pfc 08 pads from you in the coming days 👍🏼

Edited by k20Rob

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