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Which Europa Would You Choose?

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Hi All,

Some advice please, for me the Europa has always been one of my favourite Lotus's and I've been holding out for a JPS but at the Hethel 70th I saw the below which I loved and found out recently it is up for sale, basically a 5 year restoration, just wondering what peoples thoughts are? Obviously not original but I love what the guy has done, would you go for it, worth the money? it is almost a modern take on the Europa but the flip side you are buying a car that looks like a Europa but really isn't.

I just don't want to buy something that is not really considered a Europa if that makes sense, the other option is something like this - https://www.uksportscars.com/view/lotus-europa-twin-cam-big-valve-1972-stunning-restoration-in-team-lotus-red-white-colours/

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C987085

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2365.0

IMG_1050_zpsiqkzajhj.jpg

IMG_1051_zpsnv92viff.jpg

IMG_1049_zpsva7z8hpu.jpg

Cheers,

Paul.

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The red one is very original, aside from the paint (not available in period), the interior (modified/updated) with the 'wrong/aftermarket' steering wheel although it does still have the original ashtray (rare!), and the wheels which although correct, they are not painted as original. All the underpinnings look right and original. If it has all the supporting paperwork it would be a great buy.

Orange car looks to be based on a Banks Europa, incorporating many of their designs/parts. Very little of the original survives, but if it performs like a Banks car it will drive like a modern and be very quick. Zero practicality as it lacks any rear storage, and the front plenum is full of air con etc. Most of these type conversions are based on the S2 shape rather than the twin cam.

Both cars have their merits, long term ownership and authentically wise the red car is the one to go for. If you want a more modern driving experience the orange one would be great for the odd Sunday blast. Horses for courses really.

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As you've included the orange one........I'm guessing your not adverse to modifications......

To that end id ask what you want....and what you'd plan for the car.........

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Horses for courses indeed.  Arguably the best Europa though is the John Player Special.  Black body with gold lines and oatmeal interior.  And one of the numbered 100 that Lotus built in 1972/73 to commemorate both their 1972 F1 Constructors' title and 50th Grand Prix win is a particularly notable model.

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34 minutes ago, Winter said:

Horses for courses indeed.  Arguably the best Europa though is the John Player Special.  Black body with gold lines and oatmeal interior.  And one of the numbered 100 that Lotus built in 1972/73 to commemorate both their 1972 F1 Constructors' title and 50th Grand Prix win is a particularly notable model.

Definitely agree there. I have noticed that in the otherwise excellent Absolute Lotus magazine they twice state 200 JPS Europa's :2guns:To be fair, these days there probably is around 200 left of the original 100 made :rofl:

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Definitely the red one for me, although I notice the gear knob isn't the original & the reverse indent cover is missing. 

Also, just because it has a "big valve" cam vover fitted, doesn't mean it is, you need to check it out. Do you know if it's a four or five speed?

There's pictures on my web site of what the interior should look like. 😁

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Don't forget......youbare venturing into the classic realm..... and originality is king......

Both cars you note are none standard......

I like the orange one....but it'd be a classic track day hoot.......

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I don’t think I would fit in a Europa, not enough headroom. That said, a big valve twin-cam in JPS colours would be the one if I were in classic car mode. The red one I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole given the rep of who’s selling it. I find the orange car very interesting, the workmanship looks fantastic, and I bet it’s a proper hoot to drive. The only thing I don’t like about it is the colour!

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I am usually against the 'bast***isation of Europas - original cars are getting very difficult to find, however, the orange one looks very well and sympathetically done, probably the best I've seen and as others have said, it could make a great track day car dependant on the chassis stiffness / set-up etc. I would see it as a potential alternative to an exige s2 for instance.

But someday, somehow, there's this...

http://www.legendsracing.co.uk/showroom/car/1968Lotus47

 

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I fitted my six foot frame into a twin cam comfortable enough. The red one could be made original interior wise, finding the correct steering wheel maybe an issue. Is it a special or tc? Five speed conversion is easy enough. It is top dollar though despite its interior and paint.

28 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

I don’t think I would fit in a Europa, not enough headroom. That said, a big valve twin-cam in JPS colours would be the one if I were in classic car mode. The red one I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole given the rep of who’s selling it. 

i thought that seller has a very good reputation? Maybe you are thinking of a seller with a similar name?

 

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12 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

 Is it a special or tc? 

 

Front and side indicators = TC

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14 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

I fitted my six foot frame into a twin cam comfortable enough. The red one could be made original interior wise, finding the correct steering wheel maybe an issue. Is it a special or tc? Five speed conversion is easy enough. It is top dollar though despite its interior and paint.

i thought that seller has a very good reputation? Maybe you are thinking of a seller with a similar name?

 

No, I’m not thinking of another seller.

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14 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Front and side indicators = TC

Or special :sofa:

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1 minute ago, tim_marra said:

Or special :sofa:

Only if they've been replaced with TC ones. If I was selling a special I'd make sure it was described as such, wouldn't you?

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yep. Never noticed that the indicators differ between the tc and special. I always thought that they were the same.

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2 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

yep. Never noticed that the indicators differ between the tc and special. I always thought that they were the same.

I am not sure when I became so sad...it happened so gradually😂

  • Haha 1

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2 hours ago, PhilT said:

Front and side indicators = TC

My '75 Special & had front side indicators??? 😕

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39 minutes ago, jonwat said:

My '75 Special & had front side indicators??? 😕

Your photo is a bit fuzzy but I would say you have the 'Special' indicators 

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I would definitely say the first thing to do is sit in one. A lot of people do not fit, to the point they cant even get their legs underneath the steering wheel. Otherwise as people have already said its then down to personal choice. 

The Twin Cam special is known as the pick of the crop. Five speed and the big valve engine makes it a fun car. Lots of cars with replacement Spyder chassis which was meant to be a improvement. I prefer the standard chassis (mine is on a spyder). Either go for originality or go something very modified in my opinion. No time for middle ground here.

I think the series ones are a stunning looking card (bread van). Probably not so useable but a rare beast indeed. The windows don’t even go down. 

Buy what you like is the answer, what anybody else thinks is only a opinion. That being said if it is something you are likely to want to sell on after you have scratched an itch then a original car will be a easier car to sell in a already niche and small market place. 

 

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12 hours ago, PhilT said:

Your photo is a bit fuzzy but I would say you have the 'Special' indicators 

So, are you saying the TC didn't have side indicators or they did but different ones to the Special?

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1 hour ago, jonwat said:

So, are you saying the TC didn't have side indicators or they did but different ones to the Special?

No, both have side indicators but Lotus had at least 2 types of 'bonnet' indicator lens. On earlier cars ie S2 and TC they are generally of the 'pointy' type and have a kind of concentric circle look. Of course Lotus probably threw whatever they had lying around on the cars but Specials normally had a more rounded type where the mould gives the look of vertical 'lines'. The side indicators on the red/white car look like replacements. Compare the red and orange cars with pic of original Special attached.

 

 

IMG_0743.jpg

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Ah, those side indicators :secret:Before my TC was restored it had one of each! I thought the reference was to the small ones on the front wings.

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17 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

Ah, those side indicators :secret:Before my TC was restored it had one of each! I thought the reference was to the small ones on the front wings.

For future ref:-

 

IMG_0744.jpg

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