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drkenbob

97 v8 starts good then dies.

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The car starts and runs for about 5 seconds and then acts like it has ran out of gas I have replaced the gas filter and that did not help. The car has 48000 miles on it and was rebuilt at 20000 and has been running good till this started a few days ago. I am thinking fuel pumps but you can hear them and like I said it starts right up and then dies with in a few seconds. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  DrKenBob

Edited by drkenbob

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That sounds like your primary fuel pump is not working. The secondary will spin up for just a few seconds which will allow the car to start but if the primary isn't working you will quickly run out of fuel in the rails.

If you can get a fuel pressure gauge onto the schrader valve on the fuel rail you will be able to see that happening.

cheers

-Chris

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Thanks Chris thats kind of what I was thinking my Buddy talked me into ordering a crankshaft sensor and its suppose to be here in the morning so I thought I would give it a try and if that does not work pull the fuel pumps. Thanks again.  DrKenBob

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If your engine is starting, then both crank and cam sensors are going to be good.  Problems with either of those will result in a non-start.

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Thanks Mike it does start runs for about 3 to 5 seconds and its just like you have turned the fuel off let it set for a few seconds and it will start right up and die again. Thanks.  Ken

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Hi Ken, I've recently had exactly the same symptoms on a Rover 800, that turned out to be a faulty immobiliser shutting down the fuel pump after start up.

 

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Dr. Bob, it isn't the crank sensor. The Schrader valve is easy to get to on the back passenger side fuel rail. Get any inexpensive fuel pressure tester and hook it up. Should be minimum 43lbs for the injectors to function correctly, but the actual system pressure will be about 50 - 53 ish. If you had help  Turn on the car, but dont start and check the pressure.  Next start car and once it dies, while fuel pressure guage is connected look at reading, probably will be 0 or low. The rail should really always be under pressure unless the car has sat for a long period of time. I also, believe it is the primary fuel pump, but before that hassle I would also replace the fuel pump relays. Much easier than the fuel pump. Thanks Mark Seifert 

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Well this is amazing timing....

My car has just started doing exactly as described above. Dying 5-10 seconds after startup.....

With the OBD2 connected I get the Secondary Fuel pump Relay on but the Primary pump Relay is on for about 5 seconds and then switches off.... the car then dies a few seconds after that...

All fuses checked and Relays swapped about but no difference....

Does this mean the fuel pump is dead or the ECU does not want to switch it on..???

I also get Coolant Re-circulation Relay open circuit (Error P1470) + Errors P0444 and P0154 which I don't think are related but I would be interested to know about them....

Just as an after thought I Don't have a schrader valve for fuel pressure testing but much larger valve similar to a schrader but one i have not seen before....

Cheers

  Gary

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After eliminating the relays I would suspect the fuel pump, not really sure how else to test it without whipping them both out of the tank and testing on the bench.

I'm going to put a beer on the fact that you do have a shrader valve on the fuel rail at the rear of the engine like the one in the picture below. This one still shows a rubber bung that needs to be removed once the dust cover has been taken off, you can buy a pressure tester quite cheaply from Amazon or similar.

SCZL9133.thumb.JPG.b242730b23ac4324cec38f5feea992b5.JPG

I had to make up a special tool (bleow) to loosen the pump assembly retaining ring, I don't know if there is a proper tool you can buy instead to do this but I think I would have struggled to 'tap' the ring with a small hammer and drift due to the lack of clearance. It's not very pretty but it did allow me to get a socket with a long extension onto it. 🙂

IMG_2613.thumb.JPG.296155b25bd4a0fa8e014c333b16f7bd.JPG

IMG_2614.thumb.JPG.aab28044cdc6af2fb77df24b8ff9f942.JPG

 

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This is what the fuel pump assembly looks like. You can get replacement pumps from SJ Sportscars and I would recommend you plan on replacing the 'in-tank' fuel hose too as it will almost certainly have perished. You need to make sure it is intended for use within a tank and able to withstand petrol on its outside surface as well as internally.

IMG_2582_small.jpg.62518cdb43d99782c5a716b134f22ac5.jpgIMG_2583_small.jpg.b5e4196ac7967cb35dfad2305f47f46b.jpg

cheers

-Chris

 

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4 hours ago, cweeden said:

... I don't know if there is a proper tool you can buy instead to do this but I think I would have struggled to 'tap' the ring with a small hammer and drift due to the lack of clearance. It's not very pretty but it did allow me to get a socket with a long extension onto it. 🙂

 

Good job Chris.  The tool is Kent Moore J-35731

$_1.jpg

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16 hours ago, cweeden said:

After eliminating the relays I would suspect the fuel pump, not really sure how else to test it without whipping them both out of the tank and testing on the bench.

I'm going to put a beer on the fact that you do have a shrader valve on the fuel rail at the rear of the engine like the one in the picture below. This one still shows a rubber bung that needs to be removed once the dust cover has been taken off, you can buy a pressure tester quite cheaply from Amazon or similar.

SCZL9133.thumb.JPG.b242730b23ac4324cec38f5feea992b5.JPG

I had to make up a special tool (bleow) to loosen the pump assembly retaining ring, I don't know if there is a proper tool you can buy instead to do this but I think I would have struggled to 'tap' the ring with a small hammer and drift due to the lack of clearance. It's not very pretty but it did allow me to get a socket with a long extension onto it. 🙂

IMG_2613.thumb.JPG.296155b25bd4a0fa8e014c333b16f7bd.JPG

IMG_2614.thumb.JPG.aab28044cdc6af2fb77df24b8ff9f942.JPG

 

Nice job.

I once made a tool to get those quickfit fuel line things open so I could remove the fuel line on the son's Holden.

It was a piece of plastic pipe about 35mm long and then I cut it longitudinally. Spread it open to get it on the pipe, pushed it into the coupling, bingo! fuel line released.

Cost? 0, time taken to make about 2 minutes. Time taken to think up a solution? about 15 minutes.

Always good when you can save money and make up your own solution.

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Well I finally got the fuel pumps changed out and now the Lotus starts and idles good but when you push the accelerator to give it some gas it dies.  I have now changed the fuel pumps, fuel filter and the relays.  I appreciate all of your feedback anymore ideas of what the problem might be.  Thanks.  Ken 

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I wonder if you have a problem with the pressure regulator (first check the vacuum hose is fitted correctly)?

I recommend you buy a cheap fuel pressure tester from Amazon or wherever and make sure you have good fuel pressure to begin with.

cheers

-Chris

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