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BHP. Evora 400 v Evora 410... - Engine & Ancilliaries/Gearbox - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
pete757

BHP. Evora 400 v Evora 410...

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The 'sticker' implies 10 BHP more... but is there really a 'technical' difference between the 2 engines?

Or does the 410 indeed have a different pulley, ECU, map etc that does give the 410 more power than the 400!

From what I have read, no 'tester' has been able to discern a difference between the 2... which is hardly surprising as 10 BHP is not a lot.

It's however very apparent that adding only 'another 20' bhp results in the 430 that is a LOT quicker... 3 seconds around Castle Coombe from the excellent 'simultaneous' vid that 'Dr P' posted. Though a portion of that would be from the Ohlin TTX set-up I am sure. 

It would be interesting to see that same comparison track test with the 400 v 410 :>) 

 

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I was told by the Lotus dealer that they were basically the same bhp but the 410 was lighter with better tyres, I tested both and preferred the all roundness of the 400.

 

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The outputs are all bench engine tested 'best of' outputs. Any difference in driving feel is likely to be down to weight and set up differences. Deveoped torque in any particular gear will also be felt. Whether there is any difference between maps on the 400 and 410 I don't know. It would be nice if Lotus published the graphs and power tables for their bench tests, but I haven't seen them anywhere.

 

 

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Some may remember the interview with JMG where he stated that the target for BHP on the 400 was 406ps to get back to 400bhp actual and that most of the cars were achieving over 406bhp so about 412ps maybe.

Being a cynical old g*t, I suspect that they both models have around 405 - 410bhp and that the actual gains are down to the weight saving........assuming of course that the buyer hasn't then specified back in all the items that are standard on the 400!!

I'd like to see the weight comparison for a fully loaded 410 against a standard 400

That said, most people who have driven both, do say they can feel a noticeable difference in the performance of the 410.

 

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The engines (and ECUs) in the 400 and 410 are identical, save for one detail. When the 410 ECU is interrogated, it identifies itself as a 410, not a 400. Otherwise, they are identical - map, pulley, sc, intake, exhaust. Everything. 

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6 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

The engines (and ECUs) in the 400 and 410 are identical, save for one detail. When the 410 ECU is interrogated, it identifies itself as a 410, not a 400. Otherwise, they are identical - map, pulley, sc, intake, exhaust. Everything. 

That is interesting... and a bit sad as well! 🙄

So, what is different with the 430 then... apart from the sticker! 

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5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

About £42k.

£2,000 per BHP then!

Seriously, does the 410 have a different map, or smaller pulley, both, or nothing!!

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According to the reviews at launch it has a slightly different ECU map to the 400 and I believe this was the Lotus story.

I personally don't give a stuff. The carbon ducktail did it for me. Any performance gain from 10bhp would not be felt by me.

The 410 is a special car for special people :). I'm special.

 

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42 minutes ago, pete757 said:

Seriously, does the 410 have a different map, or smaller pulley, both, or nothing!!

Was that a typo?

The 410 is the same as the 400. The 430 is a bit different - a different map, I presume. 

 

28 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

According to the reviews at launch it has a slightly different ECU map to the 400 and I believe this was the Lotus story.

If that’s what you read at the time, it was a lie. JMG, per chance?

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I always thought the 400 and 410 were same engine spec (406ps) and that the Sport 410 naming was just a means to differentiate the lighter more ‘sporty’ version to the regular 400.

However the newer GT410 I drove felt more meaty in the mid range than mine and allegedly runs a different map to the original Sport 410.

The 430 is a definite increase over the 410 though.

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8 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

The 410 is the same as the 400.

Not according to Lotus they are not but to be honest the difference is tiny so semantics

The 410 Sport uses the engine spec and map developed for the 311 so delivers a supposed 410bhp at 7k rpm and 420 Nm torque at 3500 rpm

The 400  delivers a supposed 400bhp (406ps) at 7000 rpm.

 

The tech spec for the 311 road is the same as the 410 Sport at 410bhp at 7k rpm.

The differences are small and not significant and not worth arguing about though the 410 sport was 3 seconds faster than the 400 around Hethel, I would put that down to weight, revised suspension and geo and a tail wind down the back straight!  

This is turning into a silly willy waving thread. My 3.65 inches beats your 3.60 inches !  It's irrelevant in the real world.

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You might want to seek some help with that 3.65”

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At 400 hp, 10hp is well within what you would consider a reasonable margin of error. Most manufacturers would say you could take two motors - both "400bhp" and for one to make 400, one to make 410 would not be unusual, at all.

I'm not surprised that the two are the exact same. I've always been more interested in how genuine the weight saving of the 410/430 is. But I don't know anyone who has weighed one to compare with what I got when I weighed mine.

The lap time improvements of the 430 are going to be from the improved aero, stickier rubber, stiffer suspension - that kind of stuff. Makes a far bigger difference than the extra 30hp ever could.

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2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Not according to Lotus they are not but to be honest the difference is tiny so semantics

The 410 Sport uses the engine spec and map developed for the 311 so delivers a supposed 410bhp at 7k rpm and 420 Nm torque at 3500 rpm

Like I’ve said already (repeatedly, over months/years), they are lying to you. The 410 ECU & map are identical to the 400 one. 

That information comes from 2 separate, and very reliable, sources. 

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I don't doubt it, but like I've said I think it is really a non-discussion anyway and irrelevant in the scheme of things. The 3 second lap time improvement in the 410 Sport over the 400 will be as @JayEmm mentions and I mentioned earlier - e.g. Cup 2 tyres, geo changes, suspension refinement and some weight saving and a tail wind on the day down the long back straight on the track.  :)

I do think it's all getting pretty pedantic and boring now so i'll bow out as it makes not one iota of a difference to my enjoyment of or feelings towards my car.

 

Now, when my pennies are saved up and it goes in for KT475 upgrade with Ohlins then it really will be irrelevant as even with massive mass in it that should make my 410 Sport quite quick compared to a 400 lol.....

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13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

According to the reviews at launch it has a slightly different ECU map to the 400 and I believe this was the Lotus story.

I personally don't give a stuff. The carbon ducktail did it for me. Any performance gain from 10bhp would not be felt by me.

The 410 is a special car for special people :). I'm special.

 

You haven't got 400 anyway, more like 370-375 :D

Edited by JG220
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52 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

i don't doubt it, but... 

🤦‍♂️

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1 hour ago, JG220 said:

You haven't got 400 anyway, more like 370-375 :D

Don't get me started. What comes out at the wheels vs what comes out of an engine on a test bed in a lab can be a little different ( cough). However Lotus aren't the only ones that do this.

 

 

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Like I said. It's turned into a shite obsessed thread.

56 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

🤦‍♂️

Shit post that as it misleads as the next bit says it is really irrelevant. The art of editing is like the art of spin and bullshit.

Anyway. Go home soon so I can go and stroke my 410 mapped masterpiece and marvel at the difference the non existent 1% increase possibly in bhp makes on the road.

Are we done now?  😴

 

 

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14 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Any performance gain from 10bhp would not be felt by me.

 

Bin the steak and red wine in favour of salads and a diet club soda and you'll feel it more :hrhr:

Perhaps I need to sneak Charlotte into your passenger seat to even things up. :whistle:

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My car would certainly be faster with Charlotte driving it!

I'll park it myself though 😮

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Blimey!

What has happened to my thread LOL!

I thought what I was asking was a 'simple' question... out of interest really :>)

I guess that if the 'average' random Evora CCSC engine produced about 407bhp, I would make more 'sense' for Lotus to label it as a '410' anyway... and once they did that on the 'Sport 410', it was only logical that they could not then sell 'just a 400', nor release a 'baby' GT430 calling it anything else other a GT410!

Anyway, thanks for all the replies! :>)

 

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2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

i don't doubt it, but like I've said I think it is really a non-discussion anyway and irrelevant in the scheme of things. The 3 second lap time improvement in the 410 Sport over the 400 will be as @JayEmm mentions and I mentioned earlier - e.g. Cup 2 tyres, geo changes, suspension refinement and some weight saving and a tail wind on the day down the long back straight on the track.  :)

 

Not wishing to stir the pot further........but, in EVO Magazine Dec 2015, under the heading 'How to reduce your lap time' they stated in a tyre review that.........

''Typically, over even just a short, 2km racing circuit, a Cup 2 tyre could make a difference measured in seconds over Michelin's Pilot Super Sport tyre''

I gather the Lotus track is 3.5km long, so lets say 1 second per km,  isn't that pretty much the time gain in one hit?

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