BHP. Evora 400 v Evora 410...

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, pete757 said:

Blimey!

What has happened to my thread LOL!

I thought what I was asking was a 'simple' question... out of interest really :>)

Yeah but then the willy's come out whenever there is talk of power, ECU maps, Dyno's, lol.

You asked this:

"It would be interesting to see that same comparison track test with the 400 v 410 :>)"

Well that question has actually been answered in the thread a couple of times Pete - the difference is 3 seconds between a 400 v 410 over the 3km test track at Hethel. We suspect the majority of the time to be down to the tyres (Cup 2's remember), suspension and geo, and the tailwind down the back straight for the 410.

Job done.

It was then established that lotus generally do not tell the truth re power outputs so we should take with a pinch of salt as the answer is generally 375 whether you have an NA, S, 400, 410 or 430. The difference in the price being justified by the amount of carbon in the bodywork.  It's quite a simple formula really and works for me :)

Oh, an if you want real powwwwaaaaa and to be seriously quick you need a Harrop TV1900 mk3 superchargenfrozen whatever.

(ok, i admit, I'm being sarky! )  hahahaha...........................  I'll get me coat as I need a drink anyway and a big fat Churchill after the week I have had.....

[Colin P]

36 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

the answer is generally 375

No it's not, it's 42. It's always 42.

 

 

 

Now we'll see the age profile of this thread.

[JG220]

6 hours ago, Bruss said:

Don't get me started. What comes out at the wheels vs what comes out of an engine on a test bed in a lab can be a little different ( cough). However Lotus aren't the only ones that do this.

 

 

Agreed, apart from BMW turbos it seems. M140i, for example books at 335 is more like 350-380.  

Of course it doesn't matter. I would prefer Lotus to be a bit more honest about it though. 

[pete757]

That would of course depend on the track...

Have a look at DR P's comparison vid here... he notes and you will see that a car length was made on the long straight, where he notes that the extra power of the GT430... (nice consistent driving btw :>) 👍)

To your point and more importantly, on this test, both cars were on the same tyre...Cup 2's.

However, I think the Ohlin's and the 430's geo and suspension set-up are getting much more out of the tyre than the Bilstiens on the 410. Plus of course, as CC is a pretty high sped circuit, that aero would add a bit as well.

Both a bloody epic cars.

Would love to see the same track test between the 410 and the 400 please. Chop chop then! 

 

 

[DarrylV8]

On 02/11/2018 at 19:30, JG220 said:

Agreed, apart from BMW turbos it seems. M140i, for example books at 335 is more like 350-380.  

Of course it doesn't matter. I would prefer Lotus to be a bit more honest about it though. 

Not sure why Lotus receive so much sh1t for engine output figures, every time Komo tech publish before and after figures for their Lotus engine upgrades they use an even higher before/starting power figure!

Don’t recall any one getting upset about the Komo tech figure?

[CocoPops]

@pete757 Biggest difference in those videos.... not the power... it’s the fact he’s wearing gloves in the 430 and not in the 410  

 

[pete757]

On 02/11/2018 at 15:50, C8RKH said:

... Not according to Lotus they are not but to be honest the difference is tiny so semantics

The 410 Sport uses the engine spec and map developed for the 311 so delivers a supposed 410bhp at 7k rpm and 420 Nm torque at 3500 rpm

The 400  delivers a supposed 400bhp (406ps) at 7000 rpm.

 

The tech spec for the 311 road is the same as the 410 Sport at 410bhp at 7k rpm...

Looks like this is indeed the case!

I found the specification described on the Lotus website about the 'Sport 410' that indeed says it's from the '3-eleven project' and is therefore different to the 400 specification...

The slight increase in power and the drop in kerb weight does make a noticeable difference to the reported BHP/Ton... they say 309bhp/1000kg for the Sport 410 and 286bhp/1000 for the 400. 

 

[Bruss]

but the car doesn't boast anything. The engine when removed from the car and put on a test bench in a lab boasts -------------. That's how the 311 and the 410 can quote the same outputs.

In the real world the only figure that matters is what comes from the wheels on any given day.

 

 

[pete757]

Of course.

I don't really care if the BHP was 390 or 420, on a bench or on a track, I was just interested if there was actually any difference between the 2 engines.

The literature certainly does indicate that is the case, which answers my question. They are also now quoting those higher figures for the 'GT410' as well.

I don't believe Lotus would actually 'deceive' on their published specifications for the 2 cars... that would not be a good move!

On reflection, if it was an identical power unit, they could have quite easily called the 'Sport 410'/410GT the 'Sport 400'/400GT instead, and added all the CF additions to it in the same way as they have done with the 410. In the same way as the Elise has had many many versions of basically the same car... the 'Club Racer' springs to mind as an example with identical mechanicals, just cosmetic 'tweeks' to the interior and exterior. 

Anyway, in the real world, it probably makes no difference whatsoever! I am happy to have found the information I was after! Cheers guys 👍

 

[E18VRA]

Just been on the official Lotus Cars web site and they quote this for the 410 Sport "Evora Sport 410 is powered by supercharged, 3.5-litre 6-cylinder engine, producing 400 hp at 7000 rpm and 301 lbft (410 Nm) of torque at 3500 rpm" the 410 refers to the Nm of torque it seems

Actual link for anyone interested https://www.lotuscars.com/evora-sport-410 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

That's not what that page says to me. It numerous places it states 410hp and 420 Nm such as 

"the car boasts 410 hp at 7000 rpm and 420 Nm of torque at 3500 rpm."

[C8RKH]

5 hours ago, pete757 said:

The slight increase in power and the drop in kerb weight does make a noticeable difference to the reported BHP/Ton... they say 309bhp/1000kg for the Sport 410 and 286bhp/1000 for the 400. 

Yeah but then I climb into my 410 Sport and any weight saving is immediately lost by the positioning of my extremely lardy arse on those ultralight carbon seats and my big beer and pie belly between that lovely magnesium light steering wheel.

Oh the irony of it..............................................................................  

35 minutes ago, E18VRA said:

Just been on the official Lotus Cars web site and they quote this for the 410 Sport "Evora Sport 410 is powered by supercharged, 3.5-litre 6-cylinder engine, producing 400 hp at 7000 rpm and 301 lbft (410 Nm) of torque at 3500 rpm" the 410 refers to the Nm of torque it seems

Actual link for anyone interested https://www.lotuscars.com/evora-sport-410 

Well that's strange Chris as i clicked your link, went to where it sid perfomance and it says this:

"Complementing the weight savings is a higher-output version of the supercharged, 3.5-litre 6-cylinder engine, developed through the Lotus 3-Eleven project which has beaten Nürburgring records. As a result, the car boasts 410 hp at 7000 rpm and 420 Nm of torque at 3500 rpm."

Maybe as well as deceiving owners over the figures and maps they now have an active bot on their website that screens out 410 Sport and non Sport 410 owners to give them different information?  Well, the devious buggers ;)

 

[Bruss]

"Maybe as well as deceiving owners over the figures and maps they now have an active bot on their website that screens out 410 Sport and non Sport 410 owners to give them different information?  Well, the devious buggers "

 

Lotus, deceiving us, lying to us, a conspiracy?  or perhaps just as confused as the rest of us with all the model types and limited, no really it is limited, editions?

 

 

[bosshog]

As @Bravo73 said same engine , map ,etc. Just a reasonable bit lighter, different suspension setup and cup 2's make it faster around the twisty stuff aside from the cosmetic differences.

[C8RKH]

6 minutes ago, bosshog said:

cosmetic differences

You mean all that lovely carbon that is splashed all over it!  God I love that carbon, it's so sexy..........

[pete757]

Carbon! Yummm!

There must be at least £10k of CF on the 410 series... if it was Mansory it would be £30k! 

It's a shame however they did not fit the CF front splitter that the 430 has on the 410 as well... is that available 'aftermarket' I wonder?

[scotty435]

Out of production usually means better resale values, 410s are not far of used 400s values as it stands now, so as to be a good time to buy a 400?

[au-yt]

Wading in late, as Simply Sports cars (SSC) explained to me the 400 to 410 is software, 410 to 430 is pulley size on the supercharger plus soft ware.

Another interesting comment from SSC the Toyota engine Evora is the one to keep, I hope so.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by au-yt